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Changing engines

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Changing engines

OK guys,



I am working on an engine swap, and called he local FSDO to see what I needed to do as this is a different engine manufacture than what is on my airworthiness (mine states that it is good with ALL rotax engines).



The local guy said that I needed to go back to the original faa office that gave approval the kit manufacture ?? Has anyone else gone through this?  say a swap from a rotax to a VW or Subie or some other engine that is not purpose built for aircraft?  I would think that the inspector may want to come out and look at it, maybe through me back to phase 1 for XX hrs to prove out the engine, but it should be done on the local level I would think...

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: Changing engines

I went through this on my Avid B and later on my MK IV Avid when I changed the 582 out to the Jabiru.  Depending when your airworthyness cert was issued C different procedures come into play.  Some require an FAA inspection C with a more recently issued AW cert it may not.  Look in your operating limitations C and it will tell you what you have to do with your plane.  I needed inspections on both of my Avids C even when I changed out from a 532 to a 582 on my first B model Avid.  Both times the local FSDO did the inspections (at no charge) C although the B was originaly from Washington and the MK IV was from Michagan.  The FAA was really helpfull in all of this.  Take care C  Jim Chuk

[quote] Subject: Changing engines

 From: akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com

 Date: Mon C 16 Nov 2009 10:54:32 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 OK guys C

 I am working on an engine swap C and called he local FSDO to see what I needed to do as this is a different engine manufacture than what is on my airworthiness (mine states that it is good with ALL rotax engines).

 The local guy said that I needed to go back to the original faa office that gave approval the kit manufacture ?? Has anyone else gone through this? say a swap from a rotax to a VW or Subie or some other engine that is not purpose built for aircraft? I would think that the inspector may want to come out and look at it C maybe through me back to phase 1 for XX hrs to prove out the engine C but it should be done on the local level I would think...

 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV 

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

 hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273176#273176

 > 

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Changing engines

Thanks Jim,



I am trying to get ahold of the Seattle MIDA office, and I am sure they will direct me back to the local office... Fn government cant make anything simple, and they keep wanting to pawn it off on someone else to do their job.

poasttown(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: Changing engines

Leonard

  

 If I remember correctly when I changed from a Rotax to a Jabiru all I did was contact the FSDO office and spoke to, is this case, the same individual who performed my original inspection.  I think some paperwork exchaned hands and I was good to go.

  

 Mike Chaney



--- On Mon, 11/16/09, akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Changing engines

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 1:54 PM



 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)>



OK guys,



I am working on an engine swap, and called he local FSDO to see what I needed to do as this is a different engine manufacture than what is on my airworthiness (mine states that it is good with ALL rotax engines).



The local guy said that I needed to go back to the original faa office that gave approval the kit manufacture ?? Has anyone else gone through this?  say a swap from a rotax to a VW or Subie or some other engine that is not purpose built for aircraft?  I would think that the inspector may want to come out and look at it, maybe through me back to phase 1 for XX hrs to prove out the engine, but it should be done on the local level I would think...



--------

DO NOT  ARCHIVE

Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

Soldotna AK

Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV 

582 IVO IFA

Full Lotus 1450

#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



hander outer of humorless darwin awards





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273176#273176



nbsp;--> http://www.matro=============





	


           [quote][b]

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Changing engines

I don't know about you and your big two-strokes, Leni.  



I still think an 8V71 Detroit is too much motor for an Avid.  Maybe okay in a a Magnum, but not your Mark IV...

_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
YouTube Videos

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Changing engines

prop Tq may be an issue, but dont you worry none, I beefed up the gear legs and the rudder area to handle it.  Thinking the gross weight is gonna be an issue for some... I aint skeered!

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Changing engines

OK just talked to the Seattle MIDO office and the have one cool lady working there.  If all feds were as nice, funny and helpful as she was, this country would be kicking (at)ss!



at any rate, for anyone who needs to work through this and your local FSDO is being a pain in the butt, here are the sections that you need to quote them to get them in gear.



you can do a web search for this document if you don't already have it



FAA 8130.2F

Section 152 C (1)

Section 153 (19) and (27)



If you give these numbers to the local FSDO they have no place to hide and have to work with you instead of giving you the run around.  With the change in engine manufactures, you have to apply for a new airworthiness (FAA form 8130-6).  After talking to Theresa this will be a painless process and is really not a big deal other than kicking me back to phase one for a minimum of 5 hrs (one good weekends worth of playing!)

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: Changing engines

Hi Leni C  I'm just wondering if you ever read through  your operating limitations?  I'm really sure that they list what you are supposed to do when making a major change on your plane.  Just a side note C every set of operating limitations I've see says that it has to be carried in the airplane (just like the airworthyness cert)  Hope you get the engine changed over without any problems C it will be interesting to see how it works out.  Wouldn't hurt to give Rotax some competition either!  Take care C  Jim Chuk  Avids C Kitfox 4  Mn

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Changing engines

 From: akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com

 Date: Tue C 17 Nov 2009 16:09:15 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 OK just talked to the Seattle MIDO office and the have one cool lady working there. If all feds were as nice C funny and helpful as she was C this country would be kicking (at)ss!

 at any rate C for anyone who needs to work through this and your local FSDO is being a pain in the butt C here are the sections that you need to quote them to get them in gear.

 you can do a web search for this document if you don't already have it

 FAA 8130.2F

 Section 152 C (1)

 Section 153 (19) and (27)

 If you give these numbers to the local FSDO they have no place to hide and have to work with you instead of giving you the run around. With the change in engine manufactures C you have to apply for a new airworthiness (FAA form 8130-6). After talking to Theresa this will be a painless process and is really not a big deal other than kicking me back to phase one for a minimum of 5 hrs (one good weekends worth of playing!)

 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV 

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

 hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273354#273354

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Changing engines

yes I have read them.  My issue was I called the local FSDO (as I was spose to) and they did not want to deal with it.  I was sent to the Seattle MIDO office and they are the ones that gave me the section to quote to the local FSDO to make them get off their butts and do their job.  I just posted the references in case anyone else may be having an issue with something along these lines.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Changing engines

Len,



Your experience reminds me of when I moved during the construction of my 

first Kitfox.  After it was flying, I began to worry because I never got a 

tax assessment from the county.  I wasn't sure of the statute of limitations 

and was afraid of the big one when they finally found me.



I prepared all the docs, including some aftermarket sales info so the local 

guy would have an idea what the appraised value should be and took it to the 

county tax guy.  He finally came downstairs to the counter, we talked a 

while, and he took my papers.



Then I waited.  Apparently this dufus was just like many of the gov 

employees we deal with.  I apparently ruined his nap or his cup of coffee or 

maybe an internet search, but it took four more years before I got my first 

letter from the tax office and it was was a questioneer asking what I paid 

for the airplane.  I wrote $10,000 as that was what I paid for the Skystar 

kit.  It still boggles my mind.  But it teaches a lot about who I want 

managing my life - read many current gov plans to intrude in what some of 

the more personal aspects of life.  Maybe this is why I am so skeptical 

about any agency or company that wants to say my way or the highway.



Lowell



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