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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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 Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:20 am Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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I have a facet fuel pump as shown below.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php
I would like to use it as an auxiliary pump (backup pump) on my 912 UL. Are there opinions as to the safety of placing this pump behind the seat of my 701 (right inside the bottom access door)? I ask as I think about fuel vapors.
Anyone else placed an electric fuel pump there?
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Ernest Jessee
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ronlee
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:01 am Post subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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My electric fuel pump with a 912uls has been behind the seat where you are referring for three years , 130 hours and it works fine.
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Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona |
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lgold(at)quantum-associat
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Ernest,
Another alternative is putting the fuel pump in the engine compartment. I
put my single gascolator in the engine compartment at the bottom of the
firewall, put the fuel pump above it, and sleeved all the fuel lines. This
helps keep fumes out of the fuse. I was worried about potential vapor locks,
but have flown in air temps over 109-degrees in the western deserts in the
summer without any problems.
Les
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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Ernest,
That is where I placed mine, just after the gasolator.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/180hrs
In a message dated 11/22/2009 8:21:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, eejessee(at)us.ibm.com writes:
| Quote: | I would like to use it as an auxiliary pump (backup pump) on my 912 UL. Are there opinions as to the safety of placing this pump behind the seat of my 701 (right inside the bottom access door)? I ask as I think about fuel vapors.
Anyone else placed an electric fuel pump there?
|
[quote][b]
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ga23
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that an electric pump is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax. As a matter of fact they told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have electric fuel pumps. Save your time and do not put an extra piece of equipment that will not help and can cause problems. I also bought the same electric pump and never used it, simply not needed. (My opinion of course)
Greg
| ejessee wrote: | I have a facet fuel pump as shown below.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php
I would like to use it as an auxiliary pump (backup pump) on my 912 UL. Are there opinions as to the safety of placing this pump behind the seat of my 701 (right inside the bottom access door)? I ask as I think about fuel vapors.
Anyone else placed an electric fuel pump there? |
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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The 701 is gravity feed, to a mechanic pump in the 912, no need a fuel pump. KISS what is not installed wll not fail...
Saludos
Gary Gower,
701 912S 275 hrs...
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com> wrote:
[quote][b]
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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But a Cessna 172 is also a high wing with a mechanical pump and it has a boost pump, no? So what is the difference?
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:38 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
The 701 is gravity feed, to a mechanic pump in the 912, no need a fuel pump. KISS what is not installed wll not fail...
Saludos
Gary Gower,
701 912S 275 hrs...
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com> wrote:
[quote][b]
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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Depends on the 172: Older 172s only have a mechanical pump, newer ones have the boost pump.
The difference is the newer 172s have fuel injection.
Good luck!
John Marzulli
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> wrote:
[quote]
But a Cessna 172 is also a high wing with a mechanical pump and it has a boost pump, no? So what is the difference?
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:38 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
The 701 is gravity feed, to a mechanic pump in the 912, no need a fuel pump. KISS what is not installed wll not fail...
Saludos
Gary Gower,
701 912S 275 hrs...
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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n4546v(at)mindspring.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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do not archive
Hello:
Our Club 1958 172 has no mech pump no elect. pump with Continental engine. Maybe later Lyc powered ones are the complicated ones? (And the shakey ones)?
www.eaa163.com click on "flying club" link
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
[quote] ---
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dwilde(at)clearwire.net
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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ga23 wrote:
| Quote: |
When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that an electric pump is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax. As a matter of fact they told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have electric fuel pumps. Save your time and do not put an extra piece of equipment that will not help and can cause problems. I also bought the same electric pump and never used it, simply not needed. (My opinion of course)
Greg
I have 100 hours on my 701 and built it to the plans (no electric fuel
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pump). No problems at all so far.
Dan Wilde
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tclongo(at)att.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Instructor that is a friend had a student in training in his Rans S12 with
Rotax 582 and engine started starving for fuel and would only idle due to
paper fuel filter being clogged with water from Ethanol in fuel suspending
water and plugging filter over time. You could not see the water in filter
but could not blow through it, it looked fine. He had replaced his primer
bulb with an in-line Faucet fuel pump a while back so when he saw 0 psi on
the fuel pressure gauge he turned on the electric and got 1 psi of pressure
that let the motor now run at full power to safely fly back and land. The
Rans has fuel tanks in the wings. I put a in-line fuel pump in my Kolb MK
III after that and never had any problems. Just my two cents, everybody has
their own opinion but I have installed one in my 701 that I am building
already and feel better I will have a back up.
Tom
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: Electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Cost, AP repair, lots of more fuel, 100LL fuel cost, more expensive parts to fail, tires more expensive, two more seats, probably lots more diferences 
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Love my little and simple 701 STOL.
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: RE: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 11:49 PM
But a Cessna 172 is also a high wing with a mechanical pump and it has a boost pump, no? So what is the difference?
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:38 PM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
The 701 is gravity feed, to a mechanic pump in the 912, no need a fuel pump. KISS what is not installed wll not fail...
Saludos
Gary Gower,
701 912S 275 hrs...
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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Geoff Heap
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Gravity feed is the theory. In practice, not always so. I've seen enough posts on this list regarding full wing tanks not running down to the header(I have a ½ size D tank header). One Scandinavian pilot was concerned that his engine might stop from fuel starvation. Even though he had two full wing tanks his header was near empty despite his efforts to get the flow started. Upon landing he opened the gascolator drain for just a few seconds then closed it again. That started the flow and the wing tanks began to flow and fill the header. This was a common post just a few years ago. Most likely caused by bad/insufficient venting. A Trike owned by a member of my Local EAA chapter (216 in South Jersey) had an engine out. Inspection of the VENTED fuel tank cap revealed a spider web to be the cause.
I have a backup facet pump in the cabin just before the line goes through the firewall to the Gascolator. They are so cheap. Why would I NOT put one there. If it were to fail fuel can still pass through. It will not impede the Mechanical pump suction on the Rotax. I also fitted another facet pump behind my seat on the vertical line from the wing tanks. I may or may not need/use it to get the flow started but its there if I need it…..Geoff
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Is easy, he as an instructor should know that we (Pilots) should never install a paper gas filter in any aircraft (or ultralight)... a Gascolator is enough if we pass the fuel though a Chamois cloth before the gas tank. As the old pilots do.
No paper filter installed, no filter clogged, no need for an electric pump that could fail or leak, or... That Simple.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Tom Longo <tclongo(at)att.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Tom Longo <tclongo(at)att.net>
Subject: RE: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701?
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 12:15 PM
Instructor that is a friend had a student in training in his Rans S12 with
Rotax 582 and engine started starving for fuel and would only idle due to
paper fuel filter being clogged with water from Ethanol in fuel suspending
water and plugging filter over time. You could not see the water in filter
but could not blow through it, it looked fine. He had replaced his primer
bulb with an in-line Faucet fuel pump a while back so when he saw 0 psi on
the fuel pressure gauge he turned on the electric and got 1 psi of pressure
that let the motor now run at full power to safely fly back and land. The
Rans has fuel tanks in the wings. I put a in-line fuel pump in my Kolb MK
III after that and never had any problems. Just my two cents, everybody has
their own opinion but I have installed one in my 701 that I am building
already and feel better I will have a back up.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com)]On Behalf Of Dan
Wilde
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:45 AM
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a
701?
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: Dan Wilde <dwilde(at)clearwire.net (dwilde(at)clearwire.net)>
ga23 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ga23" <ga2323(at)comcast.net (ga2323(at)comcast.net)>
When I was down at Lockwood aviation in Florida I was told that an
electric pump is not needed in high wing planes using a 912 Rotax. As a
|
matter of fact they told me the new CTS and Tecnams will not have electric
fuel pumps. Save your time and do not put an extra piece of equipment that
will not help and can cause problems. I also bought the same electric pump
and never used it, simply not needed. (My opinion of course)
| Quote: |
Greg
I have 100 hours on my 701 and built it to the plans (no electric fuel
|
pump). No problems at all so far.
Dan Wilde
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
07:52:00
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We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
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tclongo(at)att.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Like I said you don't need one that's good for you, but I have one and won't be talked out of using it, my choice but thanks for your advice...........Tom
[quote] --
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Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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During airplane operations, when do you know when to use the pump? On always? Landing or takeoff? When the engine starts to sputter? Low fuel pressure?
Curt
[quote][b]
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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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I use mine on start up, take off and landing, just like I was taught in the spam cans. Always do your run up without the electric pump to make sure your mechanical one is pumping.
Another advantage is if you get vapor lock the electric pump will push through new fuel rather than the engine pump trying to suck vapors.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/912S/180hrs.
In a message dated 11/23/2009 4:57:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net writes:
| Quote: |
During airplane operations, when do you know when to use the pump? On always? Landing or takeoff? When the engine starts to sputter? Low fuel pressure?
Curt |
[quote][b]
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ronlee
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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If you test how much fuel will flow out the end of your fuel line at carburetor level of a Rotax 912, the volume you see will scare you into putting an axillary elect pump on. Now move the line down to the bottom of the engine and a lot more fuel will flow.
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d.shrader
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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Does anyone know what rotax has to say on this subject i would think that there should be something regarding a boost pump or lack of boost pump relative to the engine driven pump, inlet pressure, bypass relief valve installation, return fuel fuel lines, etc....
The aircraft I work on all have inline pumps both high wing and low, the high wing a/c the boost pump is used for both take off and landing as well as for priming. I can see where having a boost pump at the most critical phases of flight is a prudent thing to have. I can also say that I have never changed a high wing boost pump yet (knocking on wood) in 20 years.
My only concern would be tearing up the engine driven fuel pump regulator over time. Just assuming the rotax engine driven pump is like most aircraft pumps (of which i have no idea); there is diaphram with a spring pushing on it, on the other side is fuel pressure pushing from the other direction as the diaphram goes in and out it moves a plunger witch cuts off inlet fuel or allowes more fuel to enter, if the fuel pressure is greater than what the diaphram can handle it will rupture over time. On fuel injected motors the result is very high fuel pressure that literly floods it to death, I'm not sure what would happen to the carbs in that condition but I'm sure I don't want to know!
Dave
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: Re: electric fuel pump behind seat of a 701? |
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I have never heard of this, interesting.
Kevin
| ggower_99(at)yahoo.com wrote: | a Gascolator is enough if we pass the fuel though a Chamois cloth before the gas tank. As the old pilots do.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Tom Longo <tclongo> wrote:
] |
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_________________
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