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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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 Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that says something like "External power lost, push any button within 30 seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
Sam
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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At 10:49 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I
recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and
seems normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message
that says something like "External power lost, push any button within
30 seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS
shuts down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even
though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads
that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any
ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
No way to tell without an intimate working knowledge
of the two devices. I have a TomTom One that I use in
the car and its batteries will run down even tho the
unit is turned off. I know it has an internal time-of-day
clock that stays accurate even when turned off but
that shouldn't take much power. I used to think perhaps
it kept the GPS receiver alive when turn off. But it
still takes significant time to stand up and navigate
when turned on. Nonetheless, a fully charged internal
battery is dead after sitting unused for about a week
to 10 days.
It would be interesting to do a current drain measurement
on the batteries when in the various operating states.
Can you operate it with the battery cover off? My TomTom
is li-ion internal and you have to disassemble the thing
to get at the battery for replacement. As a result, I've
not been sufficiently victimized by curiousity to make
the measurement.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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I probably could work it with the battery cover off. So, I should hook the current meter in and see if there's a drain. It would be very low, because it takes a week or two for the 4 AAs to drain.
The plug looks like this: http://www.gilsson.com/garmin_gps/cables/rb.htm
Two leads connect to ship's power, and the other two go to the Dynon.
Sam
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 10:49 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that says something like "External power lost, push any button within 30 seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
No way to tell without an intimate working knowledge
of the two devices. I have a TomTom One that I use in
the car and its batteries will run down even tho the
unit is turned off. I know it has an internal time-of-day
clock that stays accurate even when turned off but
that shouldn't take much power. I used to think perhaps
it kept the GPS receiver alive when turn off. But it
still takes significant time to stand up and navigate
when turned on. Nonetheless, a fully charged internal
battery is dead after sitting unused for about a week
to 10 days.
It would be interesting to do a current drain measurement
on the batteries when in the various operating states.
Can you operate it with the battery cover off? My TomTom
is li-ion internal and you have to disassemble the thing
to get at the battery for replacement. As a result, I've
not been sufficiently victimized by curiousity to make
the measurement.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
===========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
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[b]
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Sam Hoskins
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danfm01(at)butter.toast.n
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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Sam Hoskins wrote:
I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been flying
a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the luxury!!). I
carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up but never turn it
on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to replace
the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an internal
clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an initial
satellite fix quicker.
| Quote: | This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I
recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems
normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that
says something like "External power lost, push any button within 30
seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts
down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even
though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads
that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any
ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
Sam
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com <http://www.samhoskins.blogspot.com>
*
*
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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At 01:36 PM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Sam Hoskins wrote:
I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been
flying a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the
luxury!!). I carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up
but never turn it
on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to
replace the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an
internal clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an
initial satellite fix quicker.
|
That's a reasonable supposition. Do you carry fresh batteries
too? A flight-bag radio with uncertain energy in the batteries
is not a very solid backup. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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johnd(at)wlcwyo.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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I have digital camera that I am sure has a switch mode power supply.
When these batteries (AA) go dead I keep and use them in flashlights and portable radios.
It seems there is plenty of power left in the cells for the radio or flashlight to last quite awhile.
Try saving and checking the voltage left in batteries used in cameras and such.
John L. Danielson
Senior Engineering Technician
WLC Engineering, Surveying & Planning
200 Pronghorn St., Casper, WY 82601
307-266-2524
--
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danfm01(at)butter.toast.n
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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I do in fact carry extra batteries in my flight bag.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: |
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
At 01:36 PM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>
> <danfm01(at)butter.toast.net>
>
> Sam Hoskins wrote:
>
> I also have a Garmin 196. For the last couple of years I've been
> flying a rental plane that has dual Garmin 430's installed (O the
> luxury!!). I carry the 196 around in the flight bag for a back up
> but never turn it
> on except occasionally to check the batteries. I still have to
> replace the batteries once or twice a year. It may be because of an
> internal clock that runs continuously. The clock helps it get an
> initial satellite fix quicker.
That's a reasonable supposition. Do you carry fresh batteries
too? A flight-bag radio with uncertain energy in the batteries
is not a very solid backup. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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skywagon
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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..about spare cells, etc.
I use a "Sharpie" pen and write the date on spare cells like AA's. I also
date mark them when inserting into a device. Down the road, I don't have to
guess as to how old they are, and it gives me a good idea when to pitch
them.
Dave
__________________________________________
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Sam
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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Guys, I appreciate the help about maintaining good battery practices, but that is not the issue here. The unit eats batteries when it is truned off, and it never did it before I wired it into my panel.
I received a couple of off-line comments from another GPSMap196 use that are very relevant:
| Quote: | Mine does this as well. I understand that the very last prom
update addresses this- but I've not tried installing it. I know
it works now, and I'd rather not trash the unit by attempting
a download.
However, I had the problem on my gps 196, and I noted that the
change log pointed out that there was a known problem with
the batteries draining when external power was cut.
Addressed in Ver. 4.40, as of Oct 19, 2006 of the software.
If that's the version you have, Then I guess the problem still
exists, and I'm glad I didn't upgrade..
I assume that it's part of the "switch to the other source" logic
that attempts to keep the unit up and operational through the
change from internal power to external, and back. It appears
to shut down, but not all of it does. Since I changed the checklist, the
problem went away. Prior to that, I was changing batteries on
a regular basis. And.. one other thing to check for- I wiggle my
lighter plug before power-up- I noted when the batteries were dead
that sometimes I did not have a good contact in that plug- easy to
see when there's no other power. I fly with a spare set of
batteries, and a spare OLD gps unit that takes forever to acquire
a signal. Before I knew about the drain and the lighter socket
problem, I resorted to it once when the low level scattered
suddenly went solid.. Nice to have the old-fashioned pointer
to the home airport, as well as the distance. Nicer still
to find a break in the overcast to let me back through!
I had enough worries without trying to debug a suddenly blank GPS.
Anyway- you might take a look at your software version, and let
me know if you do the upgrade.
|
This sounds like the problem with my unit - only problem is, I upgraded the software for my portable about two years ago.
I sent Garm's tech support a request for help, but nothing yet. This isn't a big issue, but if Garmin sends a reply, I will be sure and pass it along.
Thanks.
Sam
On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 10:49 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
This is kind of a strange one. I have an old Garmin GPSmap 196. I recently wired it to my aircraft, including my Dynon Flightdek D180.
The GPS 12V supply is wired to the ship endurance bus switch and seems normal. When I shut the ship's power down I get a GPS message that says something like "External power lost, push any button within 30 seconds to run on battery power". If I don't touch it, the GPS shuts down and the screen in blank, which is what I would expect.
In spite of this, the internal AA batteries still wear down, even though the unit is turned off. Is it possible that the data leads that go to/from the Dynon can permit the batteries to drain? Any ideas what I might do to fix this? Thank you.
No way to tell without an intimate working knowledge
of the two devices. I have a TomTom One that I use in
the car and its batteries will run down even tho the
unit is turned off. I know it has an internal time-of-day
clock that stays accurate even when turned off but
that shouldn't take much power. I used to think perhaps
it kept the GPS receiver alive when turn off. But it
still takes significant time to stand up and navigate
when turned on. Nonetheless, a fully charged internal
battery is dead after sitting unused for about a week
to 10 days.
It would be interesting to do a current drain measurement
on the batteries when in the various operating states.
Can you operate it with the battery cover off? My TomTom
is li-ion internal and you have to disassemble the thing
to get at the battery for replacement. As a result, I've
not been sufficiently victimized by curiousity to make
the measurement.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------
( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH! )
( Do your part to keep this marvelous )
( tool sharp and available to all our )
( brothers in the OBAM aviation )
( community. )
---------------------------------------
===========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
[b]
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Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com |
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Dennis Johnson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: N. Calif.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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I also have a Garmin GPS 196. It says somewhere in that thick owner's manual that it drains batteries even when turned off. Mine takes about six months for the batteries to go dead. My only use for the 196 is to backup my panel mount Chelton GPS, so dead batteries aren't acceptable. In response, I removed the batteries and keep them in the airplane's glove box. I wouldn't have bought the 196 for my application if I knew it drained the batteries even when it was turned off.
Dennis
Lancair Legacy
[quote][b]
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Fox5flyer
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:01 am Post subject: GPS batteries drain |
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Sam, I also have a 196 hard wired into my airplane that does the same thing. I just assumed it was something inherent in the unit. It's mounted to my stick and since I don't use it as a portable I don't worry about it. It's been that way for several years.
Deke
[quote][b]
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