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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

Hey all - 



For those going/have gone the chelton route - what are anyone's thoughts

about displaying/viewing things like approach plates or enroute charts?

I put my deposit down on the chelton stuff the day I got back from

S-N-F, and I got to thinking about it.  I'm a brand new instrument rated

pilot (took my checkride the day I left for S-N-F), and I'm tired of

lugging around the super-heavy flight bag.  I know the chelton will tell

you all you need to know about the approach, and the Trutrak autopilot

will fly it for you, but I like the idea of being able to see the plate

on the screen, possibly with a little airplane super-imposed on it.  So

do you go "electronic flightbag" with a tablet computer?  MX20 is a

thought but is a little pricey for what little I'd be using it for.

Plus, I'll be using the freeflight IFR GPS, and 2 SL30s in the panel.

No garmin GPS.  Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought

about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution?  Be

gentle with me.  I'm new to this stuff.



cj

#40410

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

You could look into the Flight Cheetah by true

flight(www.aviationsafety.com).  The problem we found out on using plates

with the plane superimposed is that the plates are not to scale.  I think

Anywhere's Pocket Plates has that option, but you have to calibrate every

plate before using it.  That on a pocket PC or a tablet PC would also be

good.  True Flight's GPS, weather and plates are really nice to have.  They

have some great ways of displaying info like winds aloft, echo tops, metars,

etc that I have not seen elsewhere.  They will calculate for you the fastest

and cheapest flight level based on winds aloft over your route, fuel burn at

different altitudes (you plug in fuel available at the beginning of the

flight), etc.  I don't know how much the weather option costs for the

Chelton, but this may be an alternative, with a backup moving map as well,

and the plates, of course.  The updates are the cheapest I have seen for the

plates and the software.



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

 

I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of

May.  You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check

from down here.  Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at

352-465-4545.



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

You're right that it will draw the approach on the screen, and it

actually gives a fair amount of the required info for the approach,

including flying the missed approach.  But, as you noticed, you'll

still want to have some sort of chart.  What I've done so far is

to start using a tablet PC.  I need to get out now and fly with

it and see how it goes.  The sportys DVD charts, by the way, are

very nice.  $10 gets you all of the approaches.  I got the DVD,

and I'll keep the files updated manually from the FAA site.

The thing is, with the stinkin' pen I haven't been able to be very

good at entering the stuff into the tablet....mine is an old

Compaq TC1000.   So, I think what I'm going to end up with is

maybe a nicer tablet, or I'll pre-plan most of my approaches

and just put desktop icons linking me to that particular airport

before each trip.   For local flying, I'll probably just grab

a few paper charts printer from the FAA site and use those.

For X/C, you never know what you'll need.   It was my intention

to shop for good tablet charting solutions at SNF, but my time

got eaten up and I ended up not being able to get much info.

For the time being though, what I have now would work in a

pinch.



FYI:  There is one guy who figured out how to display charts

on his Chelton...but I think it's complicated beyond what

most people would want to try....hardware mods and additions.



PS: Congrats on the rating....use it often and wisely.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Chris Johnston wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hey all - 

 

 For those going/have gone the chelton route - what are anyone's thoughts

 about displaying/viewing things like approach plates or enroute charts?

 I put my deposit down on the chelton stuff the day I got back from

 S-N-F, and I got to thinking about it.  I'm a brand new instrument rated

 pilot (took my checkride the day I left for S-N-F), and I'm tired of

 lugging around the super-heavy flight bag.  I know the chelton will tell

 you all you need to know about the approach, and the Trutrak autopilot

 will fly it for you, but I like the idea of being able to see the plate

 on the screen, possibly with a little airplane super-imposed on it.  So

 do you go "electronic flightbag" with a tablet computer?  MX20 is a

 thought but is a little pricey for what little I'd be using it for.

 Plus, I'll be using the freeflight IFR GPS, and 2 SL30s in the panel.

 No garmin GPS.  Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought

 about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution?  Be

 gentle with me.  I'm new to this stuff.

 

 cj

 #40410

 www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

jjessen(at)rcn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

I'm confused.  You have 3 screens, an you need, essentially, a 4th, because

none of the Cheltons can show Jepp or FAA IFR charts?  This has taken me by

surprise.  For some reason, when I read their brochure that states "It's

loaded with Jeppesen NavData that allows for onscreen flight planning...."

I assumed charts.  Yeow.  



John Jessen 

  ~328 (amazed...and am doing some recalculations and recombinations of

various equipment.)



--

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

NavData is used by moving maps and GPS units and is a database of

navaids, airports, etc, and their lat/lons.  



If you want terminal charts, you need "JeppView" - a separate (and

pricier) subscription, as well as something that is compatible to

display them.  (How about a nice Avidyne EX500?)



BTW, when Jesse said the government charts available on many tablets

aren't "to scale" he really meant they aren't "geo-referenced".  That's

what allows ownships and flightplans to be overlaid on top.



TDT

40025



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

That's correct.  Considering the cost of Jepp updates though,

I'm ok with doing some of this using a tablet where the cost

can be cheap.  The subscriptions and cost of doing it

on the MX-20 is not at all a cheap solution....you should

price it sometime.



All the approach Jepp navdata is on the screen, and I know I

could comfortably fly an entire approach without a chart in

hand at all.  The nice thing about the chart though is

having the info like MDA and other things quickly available

in a standardized format.  I haven't found the MDA on

an approach on screen yet, and don't know that it's there.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Jessen wrote:

[quote] 

 

 I'm confused.  You have 3 screens, an you need, essentially, a 4th, because

 none of the Cheltons can show Jepp or FAA IFR charts?  This has taken me by

 surprise.  For some reason, when I read their brochure that states "It's

 loaded with Jeppesen NavData that allows for onscreen flight planning...."

 I assumed charts.  Yeow.  

 

 John Jessen 

   ~328 (amazed...and am doing some recalculations and recombinations of

 various equipment.)

 

 --

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

Oooooh oooooh,  I almost forgot to say that....   The EX500 is

a beautiful piece of equipment.  If charting is really what you

want on one of those boxes, go for the EX500.  Now, Tim, fill

us in on the costs of the box plus JeppView and a subscription.

I do think that would be sweet though.



The tablet option, with a little scripting work, will cost me

the price of a laptop/tablet to run the charts on, plus

about $10.  Annual cost....so far $0-10 if you're willing to

do a tiny bit of legwork with an old scrap PC.

Tim



Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

[quote] 

 

 NavData is used by moving maps and GPS units and is a database of

 navaids, airports, etc, and their lat/lons.  

 

 If you want terminal charts, you need "JeppView" - a separate (and

 pricier) subscription, as well as something that is compatible to

 display them.  (How about a nice Avidyne EX500?)

 

 BTW, when Jesse said the government charts available on many tablets

 aren't "to scale" he really meant they aren't "geo-referenced".  That's

 what allows ownships and flightplans to be overlaid on top.

 

 TDT

 40025

 

 

 

 --

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

Your local Flight Standards office might have something to say about

flying IFR without either paper or electronic approach charts in hand .

. .



TDT

40025

--

jjessen(at)rcn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

Yeah, I even knew this, but for some reason jumped to the conclusion that,

with all that horsepower, one could just add JeppView and be done with it.

One of the benefits of going glass, in my mind, is the ability to do away

with the paper charts.  You might still have them stowed in the back as

ballast.  As everyone has surely done, I'm going to put together some

combinations of things and see what I come up with that can include

electronic charts.  What would I lose, other than HITS, if I went with an

MX20, 480, two of Rob's new units, SL30, etc?  I've got to do some more

research and costing out.  



John Jessen

  ~328 (cross-eyed at the moment)



--

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

Okay, but you're not going to like it!  



EX500:  $8,995

Includes XM weather, Traffic interfaces, Stormscope interface,

"Multilink" two-way Datalink.

(or spend $16,985 and get a package with also a TAS600 (formerly TCAD)

ACTIVE traffic sensor)



Plus:

JeppView chart function (we call it "CMax"):  $2,495



Jeppesen subscriptions for terminal charts range from $376 for "US West"

to $965 for "48 states" . . .



But it's certified and since most charts are geo-referenced, you can

overlay ownship and flightplans!  It supports "day" and "night" color

palettes, too.



One cool thing that is useful on a handful of charts is that Visual

approaches are also geo-referenced.  So we can overlay your ownship on

the chart for the Roaring Fork Visual approach to Aspen.  This give you

great situational awareness, since you're no longer dependent on

identifying one named mountain from another . . .



TDT

--

jjessen(at)rcn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

This may indeed be an option, a direction, one avenue to pursue.  Thanks for

the info!  



John Jessen

  ~328 (rethinking everything...ah the joys of experimental daydreaming!) 



do not archive



--

brinker(at)cox-internet.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

I am working on a 12v computer system with 8" touch screen. 

With True Flight software. So far I am impressed with all the capabilities 

it provides including showing the accual approach charts as well as 

overlaying them on the flight plan. Although True Flight does have a 

disclaimer stating the approach plates are not intended to replace the paper 

ones. Just trying to cover they're tail from a possible law suite I suppose. 

I would think it to be a good idea to print out (which can be done with the 

software)whatever charts we're required for the flight plan just in case the 

computer fails. So far I have only used it at home just to check it out and 

get fimiliar with it. But I think it will be very useful once I get my IFR 

rating. I believe it will be a nice addition to and add even more redundancy 

to the GRT  3 screen dual ahrs I am planning on.



Randy



---

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=chartcaseinfo



I did see these guys at S-N-F and liked it.  Maybe a tablet pc kneeboard

with Bluetooth GPS running this.  The only thing is that I like the jepp

stuff better.  Harrumph.



cj

#40410

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net



--

johncram(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact  that I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one  mention. The OP Technologies display.  1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has  an internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely.  4. It  displays approach plates.  Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than  the chelton system. Will forward first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids  Avionics. 

  

 John Cram

 40569 ( waiting on the Emp)

  

 do not archive

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

Look at that!  Builder 569!  

   

It would be interesting to plot the time distribution of kit orders and kit completions for the -10.  I predict there is a wave of -10s that will be flying between now and the end of this year.  

   

Then one could cross-correlate the price of used IO-540s against that chart, too!  

   

TDT

 

   

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram

 Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:55 PM

 To: RV10 LIST

 Subject: IFR related cockpit stuff  

  

     

Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact that I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one mention. The OP Technologies display.  1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has an internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely.  4. It displays approach plates.  Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than the chelton system. Will forward first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids Avionics.   

    

   

    

John Cram  

    

40569 ( waiting on the Emp)  

    

   

    

do not archive

GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

In a message dated 4/12/2006 2:30:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, CJohnston(at)popsound.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  MX20 is a

thought but is a little pricey for what little I'd be using it for. 	


 Is Garmin selling the MX 20 screen to experimental's???  I thought they would only market this to certified GA aircraft???  The MX 20 screen is an awsome system.

  

 Patrick Scott

 do not archive

acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

John,  

Is this some new OP Tech gear?  

I did some price comparisons on OP and Chelton six months ago and found they were about the same price when you compared capabilities and numbers of screens etc…  

John  

40315  

Do not archive  

     

   

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram

 Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 7:55 AM

 To: RV10 LIST

 Subject: IFR related cockpit stuff  

  

     

Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact that I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one mention. The OP Technologies display.  1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has an internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely.  4. It displays approach plates.  Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than the chelton system. Will forward first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids Avionics.   

    

   

    

John Cram  

    

40569 ( waiting on the Emp)  

    

   

    

do not archive

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

I'm not sure this was to me or not, but, if it was, I agree.  That's

why I'm going the tablet chart route.  I only illustrated that I

think I could fly the approach fine without the charts, but there

is necessary information on there to do it properly and safely.

I used to be a Jepp Chart subscriber.  Now though, after paying

for Jepp databases, I'll be happy to use FAA charts, paper or

electronic.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

[quote] 

 

 

 Your local Flight Standards office might have something to say about

 flying IFR without either paper or electronic approach charts in hand .

 . .

 

 TDT

 40025

 

 

 --

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

I think there’s one in the Vans factory 10.  no?  

   

--

brinker(at)cox-internet.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: IFR related cockpit stuff

               They can be bought from Stark for $5476

 [quote]   ---

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