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503 oil injection retrofit

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

I want to install an oil injection system on a 503 DCDI. It has an electric starter on mag end. There is a hole in the center of the cover plate above the starter that appears to be for the oil pump drive shaft.



This engine I purchased new in 1994 and it has never had an oil injection installed on it. There are no holes for the injection in the intake manifolds.



I am wondering how big a job it is and what parts I need and where to find them.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

In a message dated 12/7/2009 9:12:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  nahsikhs(at)elltel.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I want    to install an oil injection system on a 503 DCDI. 	


 

 Take it from an old hand (very old hand) at ultralights & 2-sicle  motors...DO NOT install an oil drive system. Keep mixing your fuel & oil.  It's much more reliable & a hell of a lot less trouble. You're just asking  for trouble.

  

 Bill Catalina

 Class of '78

  [quote][b]

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

Totaly agree. Keep it simple . Mixe your own fuel.

  

 Regards

 Downunder

 MK111c

 503

 [quote]   ---

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:45 am Post subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

I agree.  Premixing is simple and bullet proof.  My Kitfox is bare bones and I like to keep it that way as much as I can. 



My main reason for wanting to convert to the oil injection is to reduce carbon build up.  I have to taxi over a mile each way to take off and again after landing.  Also there is a University flight school at my local airport so there are almost always five or six or more planes doing touch and goes or stop and goes so I sit there for ever waiting for an opening to take off.



At 50 hours there was plenty of carbon in the piston ring grooves.

People flying 503s with oil injection tell me they go 150 hours or more and the pistons are still clean as a whistle.  I think my carbon build up is due to all that low rpm taxiing and idling at 50:1 oil ratio.  It about broke my bank account just to buy the gaskets to do the de-carbon work.  Rotax has become pretty proud of their parts.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

In a message dated 12/8/2009 8:47:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  nahsikhs(at)elltel.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  People    flying 503s with oil injection tell me they go 150 hours or more and the    pistons are still clean as a whistle.

	


 

 Well, good luck on installing that oil  injection.

  [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

 	  Tom Jones wrote: 	
		  I agree.  Premixing is simple and bullet proof.  My Kitfox is bare bones and I like to keep it that way as much as I can. 



My main reason for wanting to convert to the oil injection is to reduce carbon build up.  I have to taxi over a mile each way to take off and again after landing.  Also there is a University flight school at my local airport so there are almost always five or six or more planes doing touch and goes or stop and goes so I sit there for ever waiting for an opening to take off.



At 50 hours there was plenty of carbon in the piston ring grooves.

People flying 503s with oil injection tell me they go 150 hours or more and the pistons are still clean as a whistle.  I think my carbon build up is due to all that low rpm taxiing and idling at 50:1 oil ratio.  It about broke my bank account just to buy the gaskets to do the de-carbon work.  Rotax has become pretty proud of their parts. 	




The main thing you have to check for if you want to fit the oil injection is if your crankshaft has the square driver hole in the end of the shaft. Check that first before you buy anything. The oil pump drive shaft fits into this hole and it's required to use the pump.



A rotax dealer might be able to tell you at what serial no. this was introduced, but I'd still visually check this anyway. You can't miss it - it's a big square hole right on the end of the crank.



If it doesn't have that, you're SOL (unless you buy an updated crankshaft). 



I always ran 50:1 premix as well, mostly just because I liked the simplicity and I'm always really anal about gas that I put into my planes (so didn't ever forget to mix the oil in). But everyone I've talked to who runs the oil injection has reported zero problems. The leaning of the oil at idle is another benifit.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

 	  Quote: 	
		  A rotax dealer might be able to tell you at what serial no. this was introduced, but I'd still visually check this anyway. You can't miss it - it's a big square hole right on the end of the crank. 	




Thanks for the heads up. According to the serial number my engine has the injection drive shaft provision in the end of the crank.



I have an injection pump located and will check the local Ski Doo shop for a price on a reservoir system.  The Aircraft engine rotax shops want 2 hunskies for the tank, filter and line.



The last thing I need to figure out now is the injection ports in the intake manifolds.  Is that a special nozzle or is it just a an open barbed tube that I could drill a hole in the manifold and install?

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

 	  Tom Jones wrote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  A rotax dealer might be able to tell you at what serial no. this was introduced, but I'd still visually check this anyway. You can't miss it - it's a big square hole right on the end of the crank. 	




Thanks for the heads up. According to the serial number my engine has the injection drive shaft provision in the end of the crank.



I have an injection pump located and will check the local Ski Doo shop for a price on a reservoir system.  The Aircraft engine rotax shops want 2 hunskies for the tank, filter and line.



The last thing I need to figure out now is the injection ports in the intake manifolds.  Is that a special nozzle or is it just a an open barbed tube that I could drill a hole in the manifold and install? 	




Yeah this was a change that came along with the oil injection. The newer intake manifolds already have the fittings in them, the older ones don't have them.



I don't see why if you're good with drilling and tapping that you couldn't drill and tap the holes yourself. I'd be sure and use the rotax fittings tho, since you can be sure they have just the right orifice size for metering the right amount of oil, etc. And I'd make sure to place the holes where they are on the new manifolds.



Otherwise you have to get new manifolds, surely super pricey from Rotax. 



But I've never modded the older manifolds so I don't know of any gotchas. I'd talk it over with a rotax mechanic like Thom or any of the other folks on here. Or ask the dealer (maybe you can trade in your old manifolds?)



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

Tom C  my old CPS catalog shows a coolant recovery bottle which they say can also be used as a oil injection reservoir.  Part # 1609  price was $14.95  (in 2002)  Maybe they still sell it.  Jim Chuk

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Tue C 8 Dec 2009 08:06:36 -0800

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 > A rotax dealer might be able to tell you at what serial no. this was introduced C but I'd still visually check this anyway. You can't miss it - it's a big square hole right on the end of the crank. 

 Thanks for the heads up. According to the serial number my engine has the injection drive shaft provision in the end of the crank.

 I have an injection pump located and will check the local Ski Doo shop for a price on a reservoir system. The Aircraft engine rotax shops want 2 hunskies for the tank C filter and line.

 The last thing I need to figure out now is the injection ports in the intake manifolds. Is that a special nozzle or is it just a an open barbed tube that I could drill a hole in the manifold and install.

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax C 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg C WA

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276695#276695

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capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

Tom, I flew a 503 490hrs on premix using pensoil for air cooled engines had it rebuilt before I sold it . The rebuilder said almost no carbon !

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly 



 

   From: Tom Jones <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 8:45:44 AM

Subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit



--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net (nahsikhs(at)elltel.net)>



My main reason for wanting to convert to the oil injection is to reduce carbon build up.  I have to taxi over a mile each way to take off and land.  At 50 hours there was plenty of carbon in the piston ring grooves and it about broke my bank account just to buy the gaskets to do the de-carbon work.  Rotax has become pretty proud of their parts.



People flying 503s with oil injection tell me  they go 150 hours or more and the pistons are still clean as a whistle.



--------

Tom Jones

Classic IV

503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

Ellensburg, WA





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276680#276680

www.homebuip;                     &n================



         [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

Tom,



Call Bob Robertson    1-866-418-4164

he sells a ton of the oil injection change over kits. 



You will not beat  him in service and parts. 

He makes everything you need in one package. 



Oil Injection is far superior to pre mix. And although you have a few more parts they have a 99.99999% reliability. 



Your plugs will last 100 hours easy now .

It works, it really does. 

Dave

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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: 503 oil injection retrofit

In a message dated 12/8/2009 4:58:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  capedavis(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Tom, I    flew a 503 490hrs on premix using pensoil for air cooled engines had it    rebuilt before I sold it . The rebuilder said almost no carbon    !

	


 

 Well said Chris but I think the "other side" is well entrenched in their  thinking too. We'd have as hard a time changing their minds as they would  have changing ours. So if they're happy, so be it. 

  

 That being said...I've been flying 2 cycle ultralights since 1978,  have multiple thousands of hours in them & my favorite principle is  K.I.S.S...and I think we all know what that means. My next best saying is..If  it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  

 The less crap you have hanging on a motor, the less crap you have to deal  with...especially at tear down & inspection. Some people have so much  unnecessary crap on their planes it would take hours if not days getting it all  off just to get to a problem.

  

 Now think of an ultralight pilot broke down in the bush...100 degrees, 95%  humidity, mosquitos, no-see-ums, sweat pouring into your eyes...and a motor  loaded with crap that you have to remove (and replace) to get to your  problem...or...that may be the cause of your problem.

  

 My best running trike is a DFS with a simple 503, pull start & manual  choke with an E.I.S. 

  

 Get my drift?

  [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: 503 oil injection retrofit

Anyone premixing with an engine that came with oil injection want to trade me their manifolds for a pair without the injection ports?  I'll pay shipping plus $20.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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