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Washed gas and Leaded gas

 
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WurlyBird



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

So here is the new topic on my mind;

First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience with washing ethanol out of fuel? I would like to hear about it.

I have read here and on other sites about simply adding water and then draining off the ethanol free fuel but it just sounds wrong to me.

I am planning on replacing my fuel tanks with E compatible ones but I am not ready yet because I have not allocated the cash first of all but also I am still concerned about the down time so I am going to wait until deeper into winter when I will not be too upset about not flying for a few weeks. When I first started to run into the issue with no ethanol free fuel in my area I was told that the plug fouling was the only major issue with 100LL but that is not sounding like the case right now. I am probably 40 hours into running straight 100LL and I am wondering if I am putting my engine (and butt) at risk. So I really need to figure out a solution and preferably by Saturday.


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James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.
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Dick Maddux



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:39 am    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience with washing
ethanol out of fuel?  I would like to hear about it.
You wash away the octane too, not good.
      Dick Maddux
      Milton,Fl
[quote][b]


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Lion8



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

Wash out ethanol out? Yes Dick, I took a big glass jug. I put exactly 5 gal. in. I poured a measured 1qt. of water. Mixed it up a bit. The next day I drained out just under 2 ltr.'s of cloudy liquid. It wasn't gas. I set this on a shelf for a few days. As I walked around the shop, I kept smelling White Lightning (pure grain alcohol). \
Didn't put the stripped gas in my plane-I dumped it into my truck. Because I don't know what else I stripped out, I will not fly with it. To lower the ethanol I cut the mogas with no more than 1/2 100LL and add seafoam. -'Lion 8'- (Tom)

---


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Tom (Lion8), Currently Flying an LSA Trike
Rebuilding a Kitfox IV Speedster
Southern New Jersey
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

Hey James,

I've heard other talk about washing gas too but there is a problem with
that. The alcohol raises the octane rating of gas. Because of this the
refiners actually ship a product that has a lower octane rating and when
mixed with 10 percent alcohol it then has the octane rating shown on the
pump.

Taking the alcohol back out reverses the process. Now what the octane
rating is without the alcohol I don't know. I *guess* you could buy the
93 octane gas (if you can find it) and be able to lose a few octane
points and still be OK. Long term I think it's easier to change the
tanks and be done with it.

As for the 100LL, it was my mistake for not using a lead scavenger in
the gas when going x-country. I would absolutely recommend using it if
you are burning strait avgas. I don't know what to say about what oil
to use with it; others here have some good suggestions.

I've also heard of the guys using "Sea Foam" to clean the rings, but
again, I have no direct experience. Rotax says to pull the cylinders at
150 hours and clean the rings. Based on my experience I would say
that's good advice. You can't really tell if the ring is free without
getting the piston in your hand. A set of aftermarket of seals (I've
used these and they are perfectly good except for the crankshaft end
seals) will only cost about $50 to do the job. Just the top end seals
are only $30.

Gaskets: http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/711194.html

HKS still runs and recommends running car gas. But they are near a
marina in FL and can still get E0 fuel there.
FWIW,

Mark Napier

Time: 06:55:34 PM PST US
Subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>
So here is the new topic on my mind;

First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience with
washing
ethanol out of fuel? I would like to hear about it.

I have read here and on other sites about simply adding water and then
draining
off the ethanol free fuel but it just sounds wrong to me.

I am planning on replacing my fuel tanks with E compatible ones but I am
not ready
yet because I have not allocated the cash first of all but also I am
still
concerned about the down time so I am going to wait until deeper into
winter
when I will not be too upset about not flying for a few weeks. When I
first started
to run into the issue with no ethanol free fuel in my area I was told
that
the plug fouling was the only major issue with 100LL but that is not
sounding
like the case right now. I am probably 40 hours into running straight
100LL
and I am wondering if I am putting my engine (and butt) at risk. So I
really
need to figure out a solution and preferably by Saturday.

--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
The ink is still drying on my new certificate
Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 76778#276778


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WurlyBird



Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

I kind of figured the "washed" fuel was more of a myth then something being practiced right now. I have some leave coming up so maybe I just need to plan on spending some down time in the garage, if only I can get the supplies in time. For some reason when I first started looking into new fuel tanks I decided to stick with the Skystar tanks instead of the drop in tanks that are about $500. At about a $400 difference I can't for the life of me remember why.

As has been mentioned the lead scavengers only work when burned so it only helps the top end of the engine. Having run straight avgas for about 40-50 hours is there reason to think that I should go ahead and have the engine looked at? If I can just get 3 more months of flying I will have no issues with pulling the engine out for a service, I don't want any down time before my next government funded "vacation" Shocked


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James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.
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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

On the other list I mentioned I had my outboard motror tank submerge several times when I was a kid. Of course in those days there was lead in the gas which would not wash out with a bit of water. You are quite rigt that you will reduce the RON of your gas by removing the ethanol.

Noel

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:09 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas



First and foremost, has anyone here have any FIRST HAND experience with washing
ethanol out of fuel? I would like to hear about it.
You wash away the octane too, not good.

        Dick Maddux

        Milton,Fl
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[quote][b]


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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats
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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

Not washing ethanol out of the gas... We don't have ethanol here. But
several times when I was a kid I had my outboard motor tank submerge and had
to drain off the water. No problem.

Noel

--


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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats
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Float Flyr



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Washed gas and Leaded gas Reply with quote

Ethanol is supposed to have a RON of 116,  normal (whatever that is) gas 87 so washed gas mixed 50/50 with 100LL would have a RON of 93.5 with half the lead of  100LL.  Because the 582 doesn’t require high octane fuel I’d use it in fact I think I’d go to 4:1 washed:100LL and reduce the lead even further.

Noel

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ctmcdowell(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:43 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Washed gas and Leaded gas



Wash out ethanol out? Yes Dick, I took a big glass jug. I put exactly 5 gal. in. I poured a measured 1qt. of water. Mixed it up a bit. The next day I drained out just under 2 ltr.'s of cloudy liquid. It wasn't gas. I set this on a shelf for a few days. As I walked around the shop, I kept smelling White Lightning (pure grain alcohol). \
Didn't put the stripped gas in my plane-I dumped it into my truck. Because I don't know what else I stripped out, I will not fly with it. To lower the ethanol I cut the mogas with no more than 1/2 100LL and add seafoam. -'Lion 8'- (Tom)

---


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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats
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