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Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09

 
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john_graham



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Algonquin, IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09 Reply with quote

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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N15YK 1993 Yak-52
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john_graham



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Algonquin, IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09 Reply with quote

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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N15YK 1993 Yak-52
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(847) 641-1330
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john_graham



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Algonquin, IL

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:34 am    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09 Reply with quote

Z
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09 Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09 Reply with quote

Can someeone tell me how to reply to messages I get a "pop 3" error message when I try..



Also C how do I filter out the CJ posts on the Yak site? Is there a separate Yak 52 site I do not know about?



Thanks C

Jim Shaner
[quote] Date: Fri C 11 Dec 2009 23:59:40 -0800
From: yak-list(at)matronics.com
To: yak-list-digest(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09

*

=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================

Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2009-12-11&Archive=Yak

Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2009-12-11&Archive=Yak


================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================


----------------------------------------------------------
Yak-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/11/09: 12
----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 07:09 AM - CJ nose strut "clunking" (keithmckinley)
2. 07:43 AM - Re: CJ nose strut "clunking" (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)
3. 07:43 AM - Fw: CJ nose strut "clunking" (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)
4. 07:44 AM - Re: CJ nose strut "clunking" (doug sapp)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Roger Kemp M.D.)
6. 09:06 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (jblake207(at)COMCAST.NET)
7. 09:35 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com)
8. 09:46 AM - Restoration blogs (Barry Hancock)
9. 11:30 AM - Re: Restoration blogs (keithmckinley)
10. 12:23 PM - Re: Restoration blogs (barryhancock)
11. 02:44 PM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Gill Gutierrez)
12. 08:27 PM - Re: [Norton Antis am] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Roger Kemp M.D.)



________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________


Time: 07:09:59 AM PST US
Subject: CJ nose strut "clunking"
From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com>


Quick question for you all before I start undoing things. From day one my airplane
has had a noticeable "clunk" in the nose strut while taxing. Even at slow
speeds C every time I hit even a small crack or bump in the pavement I get it

This only happens on the upstroke or when the strut fully extends. I tried reducing
the air pressure in the strut thinking it might be over serviced but that
made the strut VERY mushy and actually made the airplane very hard to steer.
At this point the pressure is correctly set.

My gut feeling is that the hyd fluid is both old C watery and probably less than
the required quantity. I believe the strut should work almost the same on compression
and extension C just like a normal shock absorber on a car. Certainly
the clunk I hear when it over extends can't be good for the stut.

So before I drain everything and try to service it C is this normal? If not C any
advice you guys may have for fixing this problem and/or servicing the strut would
be appreciated.

Keith

--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277159#277159


________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________


Time: 07:43:31 AM PST US
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: CJ nose strut "clunking"


In a message dated 12/11/2009 10:10:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time C
keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com writes:

Keith C

Nope it's not normal to hear a clunk. And I think you're correct in
needing to totally service that strut (air and fluid). To much pressure in the

strut will cause the piston to bottom out (extend) into the enter V collar
that centers the wheel when the strut is fully extended. To much pressure
and you will not be able to get the nose gear to caster for turning.

If the hyd and air pressure are correct C you shouldn't hear anything
normally. You may hear it occasionally taxing over rough ground.

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby



<keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com>

Quick question for you all before I start undoing things. From day one my
airplane has had a noticeable "clunk" in the nose strut while taxing. Even
at slow speeds C every time I hit even a small crack or bump in the pavement
I get it

This only happens on the upstroke or when the strut fully extends. I tried
reducing the air pressure in the strut thinking it might be over serviced
but that made the strut VERY mushy and actually made the airplane very hard
to steer. At this point the pressure is correctly set.

My gut feeling is that the hyd fluid is both old C watery and probably less
than the required quantity. I believe the strut should work almost the
same on compression and extension C just like a normal shock absorber on a car.

Certainly the clunk I hear when it over extends can't be good for the stut.

So before I drain everything and try to service it C is this normal? If
not C any advice you guys may have for fixing this problem and/or servicing the

strut would be appreciated.

Keith

--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT


________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________


Time: 07:43:32 AM PST US
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Subject: Fwd: CJ nose strut "clunking"

-----------------------------1260545133--


________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________


Time: 07:44:37 AM PST US
Subject: Re: CJ nose strut "clunking"
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com>

Keith C
Check:

1. Proper adjustment of the over center stay on the nose gear linkage.
The "clunking" may be it comming in and out of the over center
position.-----not good.
2. The bearing on the TOP end of your nose gear actuator. Many of the
"end lugs" were not properly heat treated and are very soft. In time the
hole in which the bearing is pressed will elongate allowing the bearing to
move "clunk" up and down. We have a US manufactured 4140 steel end lug with
new bearing in stock to solve this problem.

I doubt your problem has anything to do with OVER extension of the oleo/fork
in the nose gear. It might clunk if it were grossly UNDER pressured C but
not OVER pressured.

Always yakin C
Doug

On Fri C Dec 11 C 2009 at 7:08 AM C keithmckinley
<keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com>wrote:

> keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com>
>
> Quick question for you all before I start undoing things. From day one my
> airplane has had a noticeable "clunk" in the nose strut while taxing. Even
> at slow speeds C every time I hit even a small crack or bump in the pavement
> I get it
>
> This only happens on the upstroke or when the strut fully extends. I tried
> reducing the air pressure in the strut thinking it might be over serviced
> but that made the strut VERY mushy and actually made the airplane very hard
> to steer. At this point the pressure is correctly set.
>
> My gut feeling is that the hyd fluid is both old C watery and probably less
> than the required quantity. I believe the strut should work almost the same
> on compression and extension C just like a normal shock absorber on a car.
> Certainly the clunk I hear when it over extends can't be good for the stut.
>
> So before I drain everything and try to service it C is this normal? If not C
> any advice you guys may have for fixing this problem and/or servicing the
> strut would be appreciated.
>
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277159#277159
>
>


--
Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting C
but in the mean time C we're here C the band is playing C so we may as well
dance....."
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644

________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________


Time: 08:35:00 AM PST US
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks
like....


Gill C
For a your healthy 20-30 year old CO exposure at these levels of short term
exposure are not real health problems. I will give the direct passage from
the textbook concerning CO exposure concerning workers. The military's'
standard does not significantly differ from what is here stated. The
following is from Occupational Medicine 3rd edition C Carl Zenz C pp. 445:
PERMISSIBLE THRESHOLD VALUES FOR CARBON MONOXIDE
A summary of the recommendations of the National Institute for Occupational
Safety and Health (NIOSH) is as follows:
Employees are to be protected against acute carbon monoxide poisoning and
deleterious myocardial alterations associated with levels of
carboxyhemoglobin in excess of 5%. They are also to be provided protection
from adverse behavioral manifestations resulting from exposure to low levels
of carbon monoxide.
The recommended standard is designed to protect the safety and health of
workers who are performing a normal 8-hour C 40 hour week assignment. It was
not designed for the population at large C and any extrapolation beyond the
general worker population is unwarranted. Because of the well-defined
smoking and a common exposure to carbon monoxide and inhaled smoke C the
recommended standard may not provide the same degree of protection to those
workers who smoke as it will to none-smokers. Likewise C under the conditions
of reduced ambient oxygen concentration C such as would be encountered by
workers at very high altitudes (e.g. 5000 to 8000 feet above sea level) C the
permissible exposure stated in the recommended standard should be lowered
appropriately to compensate for loss in the oxygen-carrying capacity of the
blood. In addition C workers with physical impairments will not be provide
the same degree of protection as the general worker population. It is
anticipated that the criteria and standard recommendation in the document
will be reviewed and revised as necessary.
CONCENTRATION
Occupational exposure to carbon monoxide shall be controlled so that no
worker shall be exposed to a concentration greater that 35 ppm C as
determined by a time-weighted reading C hopcalite-type carbon monoxide meter C
calibrated against a known concentrations of carbon monoxide C or by a gas
detector tube units certified under Title 42 of the Code of Regulations C
Part 34.
No level of carbon monoxide to which workers are exposed shall exceed a
ceiling concentration of 200 ppms.
These are the same standards that are applied the occupational medicine
sections of the Aerospace Medicine departments in both of my Wings.
Now saying all of this C none of it applies to what we are doing in the CJ or
YAK communities because these are hobbies for most part not an occupation


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Back to top
stephenmorrey(at)gmail.co
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09 Reply with quote

I remmber seeing an M14P common torque value chart, specifically I am looking for the valve adjustment nut torque.  Does anyone know the proper torque?  Does anyonehave a torque value chart for the yak52 and m14p  tks

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 1:30 PM, james shaner <jimshaner(at)msn.com (jimshaner(at)msn.com)> wrote:
[quote] Can someeone tell me how to reply to messages  I get a "pop 3" error message when I try..
 
Also, how do I filter out the CJ posts on the Yak site?  Is there a separate Yak 52 site I do not know about?
 
Thanks,
Jim Shaner
Quote:
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:59:40 -0800
From: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
To: yak-list-digest(at)matronics.com (yak-list-digest(at)matronics.com)
> Subject: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/11/09

Quote:

*

=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================

Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted

Quote:
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor

Quote:
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2009-12-11&Archive=Yak
>

Quote:
Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2009-12-11&Archive=Yak
>

Quote:

=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================


----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive

Quote:
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/11/09: 12
----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------
>

Quote:
1. 07:09 AM - CJ nose strut "clunking" (keithmckinley)
2. 07:43 AM - Re: CJ nose strut "clunking" (cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com))
3. 07:43 AM - Fw: CJ nose strut "clunking" (cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com))
> 4. 07:44 AM - Re: CJ nose strut "clunking" (doug sapp)

Quote:
5. 08:35 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Roger Kemp M.D.)
6. 09:06 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (jblake207(at)COMCAST.NET (jblake207(at)COMCAST.NET))
> 7. 09:35 AM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com (vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com))

Quote:
8. 09:46 AM - Restoration blogs (Barry Hancock)
> 9. 11:30 AM - Re: Restoration blogs (keithmckinley)

Quote:
10. 12:23 PM - Re: Restoration blogs (barryhancock)
11. 02:44 PM - Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Gill Gutierrez)
> 12. 08:27 PM - Re: [Norton Antis am] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks like.... (Roger Kemp M.D.)

Quote:



________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>

Quote:

Time: 07:09:59 AM PST US
Subject: CJ nose strut "clunking"
From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com (keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com)>
>

Quote:

Quick question for you all before I start undoing things. From day one my airplane
has had a noticeable "clunk" in the nose strut while taxing. Even at slow
speeds, every time I hit even a small crack or bump in the pavement I get it
>

Quote:
This only happens on the upstroke or when the strut fully extends. I tried reducing
the air pressure in the strut thinking it might be over serviced but that
made the strut VERY mushy and actually made the airplane very hard to steer.
> At this point the pressure is correctly set.

Quote:

My gut feeling is that the hyd fluid is both old, watery and probably less than
the required quantity. I believe the strut should work almost the same on compression
> and extension, just like a normal shock absorber on a car. Certainly

Quote:
the clunk I hear when it over extends can't be good for the stut.

So before I drain everything and try to service it, is this normal? If not, any
> advice you guys may have for fixing this problem and/or servicing the strut would

Quote:
be appreciated.

Keith

--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT

>

Quote:
Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277159#277159


> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________

Quote:


Time: 07:43:31 AM PST US
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)
> Subject: Re: CJ nose strut "clunking"

Quote:


In a message dated 12/11/2009 10:10:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com (keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com) writes:
>

Quote:
Keith,

Nope it's not normal to hear a clunk. And I think you're correct in
needing to totally service that strut (air and fluid). To much pressure in the

strut will cause the piston to bottom out (extend) into the enter V collar
> that centers the wheel when the strut is fully extended. To much pressure

Quote:
and you will not be able to get the nose gear to caster for turning.

If the hyd and air pressure are correct, you shouldn't hear anything
> normally. You may hear it occasionally taxing over rough ground.

Quote:

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby


--> Yak-List message posted by: "keithmckinley"
<keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com (keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com)>
>

Quote:
Quick question for you all before I start undoing things. From day one my
airplane has had a noticeable "clunk" in the nose strut while taxing. Even
at slow speeds, every time I hit even a small crack or bump in the pavement
> I get it

Quote:

This only happens on the upstroke or when the strut fully extends. I tried
reducing the air pressure in the strut thinking it might be over serviced
but that made the strut VERY mushy and actually made the airplane very hard
> to steer. At this point the pressure is correctly set.

Quote:

My gut feeling is that the hyd fluid is both old, watery and probably less
than the required quantity. I believe the strut should work almost the
> same on compression and extension, just like a normal shock absorber on a car.

Quote:

Certainly the clunk I hear when it over extends can't be good for the stut.

So before I drain everything and try to service it, is this normal? If
> not, any advice you guys may have for fixing this problem and/or servicing the

Quote:

strut would be appreciated.

Keith

--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
>

Quote:

________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________


Time: 07:43:32 AM PST US
From: cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)
> Subject: Fwd: CJ nose strut "clunking"

Quote:

-----------------------------1260545133--


________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>

Quote:

Time: 07:44:37 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ nose strut "clunking"
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)>
>

Quote:
Keith,
Check:

1. Proper adjustment of the over center stay on the nose gear linkage.
The "clunking" may be it comming in and out of the over center
position.-----not good.
> 2. The bearing on the TOP end of your nose gear actuator. Many of the

Quote:
"end lugs" were not properly heat treated and are very soft. In time the
hole in which the bearing is pressed will elongate allowing the bearing to
> move "clunk" up and down. We have a US manufactured 4140 steel end lug with

Quote:
new bearing in stock to solve this problem.

I doubt your problem has anything to do with OVER extension of the oleo/fork
> in the nose gear. It might clunk if it were grossly UNDER pressured, but

Quote:
not OVER pressured.

Always yakin,
Doug

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:08 AM, keithmckinley
<keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com (keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com)>wrote:
>

Quote:
> keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com (keith.mckinley(at)townisp.com)>
>
> Quick question for you all before I start undoing things. From day one my
> airplane has had a noticeable "clunk" in the nose strut while taxing. Even
> > at slow speeds, every time I hit even a small crack or bump in the pavement

Quote:
> I get it
>
> This only happens on the upstroke or when the strut fully extends. I tried
> reducing the air pressure in the strut thinking it might be over serviced
> > but that made the strut VERY mushy and actually made the airplane very hard

Quote:
> to steer. At this point the pressure is correctly set.
>
> My gut feeling is that the hyd fluid is both old, watery and probably less
> > than the required quantity. I believe the strut should work almost the same

Quote:
> on compression and extension, just like a normal shock absorber on a car.
> Certainly the clunk I hear when it over extends can't be good for the stut.
> >

Quote:
> So before I drain everything and try to service it, is this normal? If not,
> any advice you guys may have for fixing this problem and/or servicing the
> strut would be appreciated.
> >

Quote:
> Keith
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277159#277159
> >

Quote:
>


--
Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting,
but in the mean time, we're here, the band is playing, so we may as well
dance....."
> Douglas Sapp

Quote:
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644

________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>

Quote:

Time: 08:35:00 AM PST US
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)>
Subject: RE: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Ever wonder what it really looks
> like....

Quote:


Gill,
For a your healthy 20-30 year old CO exposure at these levels of short term
exposure are not real health problems. I will give the direct passage from
the textbook concerning CO exposure concerning workers. The military's'
> standard does not significantly differ from what is here stated. The

Quote:
following is from Occupational Medicine 3rd edition, Carl Zenz, pp. 445:
PERMISSIBLE THRESHOLD VALUES FOR CARBON MONOXIDE
A summary of the recommendations of the National Institute for Occupational
> Safety and Health (NIOSH) is as follows:

Quote:
Employees are to be protected against acute carbon monoxide poisoning and
deleterious myocardial alterations associated with levels of
carboxyhemoglobin in excess of 5%. They are also to be provided protection
> from adverse behavioral manifestations resulting from exposure to low levels

Quote:
of carbon monoxide.
The recommended standard is designed to protect the safety and health of
workers who are performing a normal 8-hour, 40 hour week assignment. It was
> not designed for the population at large, and any extrapolation beyond the

Quote:
general worker population is unwarranted. Because of the well-defined
smoking and a common exposure to carbon monoxide and inhaled smoke, the
> recommended standard may not provide the same degree of protection to those

Quote:
workers who smoke as it will to none-smokers. Likewise, under the conditions
of reduced ambient oxygen concentration, such as would be encountered by
> workers at very high altitudes (e.g. 5000 to 8000 feet above sea level), the

Quote:
permissible exposure stated in the recommended standard should be lowered
appropriately to compensate for loss in the oxygen-carrying capacity of the
> blood. In addition, workers with physical impairments will not be provide

Quote:
the same degree of protection as the general worker population. It is
anticipated that the criteria and standard recommendation in the document
> will be reviewed and revised as necessary.

Quote:
CONCENTRATION
Occupational exposure to carbon monoxide shall be controlled so that no
worker shall be exposed to a concentration greater that 35 ppm, as
> determined by a time-weighted reading, hopcalite-type carbon monoxide meter,

Quote:
calibrated against a known concentrations of carbon monoxide, or by a gas
detector tube units certified under Title 42 of the Code of Regulations,
> Part 34.

Quote:
No level of carbon monoxide to which workers are exposed shall exceed a
ceiling concentration of 200 ppms.
These are the same standards that are applied the occupational medicine
> sections of the Aerospace Medicine departments in both of my Wings.

Quote:
Now saying all of this, none of it applies to what we are doing in the CJ or
YAK communities because these are hobbies for most part not an occupation.
> The fact is there is a risk that exists in the community. How that

Quote:
information is used individually is up to each of us in our own aircraft.
Me personally, I know how I as an old fart feel after a day of flying with
> personal exposure in my aircraft up to 50 to 100 ppm with engine run-up to

Quote:
TO and savaging for shut down. I personally am more fatigued when I do not
use a fresh air source and a mask than when I do. To date, I am still
> passing my Flying Class II AF and FAA physicals along getting a good bill

Quote:
of health from my internist. I have not done an arterial blood gas on myself
after a sortie to see what my % carboxyhemoglobin levels are. I do not plan
> on doing that either unless there is a problem. I can tell you those suckers

Quote:
hurt! An arterial blood gas is the only way to determine %
carboxyhemoglobin.
Do with this information as you please. This is a hobby. It will only become
> a problem when there is an accident related to CO. Some aircraft are going

Quote:
to have higher emissions than others. You have to determine your own
personal safety/comfort level. I am not comfortable with the levels that I
> am exposed to when I fly so I try to mitigate that exposure by wearing an O2

[quote] mask with a fresh air source.
Doc Kemp

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