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windows & fiberglass

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rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: windows & fiberglass

Did anyone else use cabosil to thicken the Weld-On?  Does it work well?



 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)>

Cabosil?  I'm getting ready to use this stuff despite the warnings but I didn't know you could used cabosil to thicken it.  Is that part of the directions for use?

 

Thanks.

johngoodman wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net (johngoodman(at)earthlink.net)>



Weld-on was the worst product I've ever used in my life. The warning label makes MEK look like mouthwash. .Respirator, goggles, and gloves are essential. It sets too fast and it's too runny. Cabosil helps but cuts into your set time. Once it's dry, you will have a devil of a time getting the unwanted droppings off. I used it on the side windows but decided to try Silpruf 2000 for the windshield. I like the results so far and it's safe to work with. I know Dave Saylor did his with Silpruf so maybe he can chime in.

 John



--------

#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit progressing. Engine &amp; Panel delivery soon.

N711JG reserved



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Rob Kochman

RV-10 "Finishing" Kit

Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)

 http://kochman.net/N819K

  [quote][b]

egohr1

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Oklahoma City

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: Re: windows & fiberglass

yes, I used cabosil to thicken the weld-on.  I mixed it to the consistency of peanut butter.  I did not have any sagging issues.



I double masked the windows and peeled the top layer just as the weld-on was setting.



After it was all set I used paintable silicone to make a clean transition and paint the interior.



Eric Gohr

N410EG - flying

_________________
eric gohr
EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: Re: windows & fiberglass

I used Eric's method and it has worked out very well.  

No problems at 120+ hours.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

FWIW, I asked the question after seeing a mention of if somewhere out 

here but didn't get an answer.  So I didn't use any cabosil and really 

didn't find it a problem.  I found that if I wetted the suface with a 

thin coat of Weld-on before gobbing it on, it would more or less stay in 

place.  However, a peanut butter consistency would make it very easy.



Bill "trying to get the shop warm enough for some glassing" Watson

Rob Kochman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Did anyone else use cabosil to thicken the Weld-On?  Does it work well?



 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson 

 <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>> wrote:



     

     <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>>



     Cabosil?  I'm getting ready to use this stuff despite the warnings

     but I didn't know you could used cabosil to thicken it.  Is that

     part of the directions for use?



     Thanks.

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, For there you have been and there you will long to return  -  - Leonardo daVinciI watched "Speed and Angles" on Hilo yesterday.  This was the quote at the beginning of the movie.  It's difficult to explain the freedom and joy of flight!Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all!Jim Combs (N312F - Flying - One year / 145 hours - Getting ready for 1st condition inspection)  Do Not Archive   [quote][b]

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: windows & fiberglass

The thing about that quote is that da Vinci never  flew...or did he?

  

 Dave

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: windows & fiberglass

I dint think so. Invented the rotor concept and the parachute I think. 

Sent via BlackBerry from T-MobileFrom:  "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> 

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:17:12 -0600

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: windows & fiberglass

 The thing about that quote is that da = Vinci never=20 flew...or did he?

 Dave

 do not archive

    ---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: Re: windows & fiberglass

Why on earth would you want to add cabosil to Weld-on?  Do you have any data that confirms that the adhesive strength won't be compromised?



Cabosil or milled glass fibers are added to epoxy for structural strength.  That means it is harder and stands up better to shear forces.  It says nothing about its adhesive abilities.  You should assume that anything you add to the Weld-on will decrease its adhesion.  The same goes for micro balloons and epoxy.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: windows & fiberglass

Mill fiber does add strength to pure resin, but Cab-O-Sil is only used to thicken epoxies and other resins so they don't run and sag.  It shouldn't have any significant effect on adhesion.  Here's a nice description:

  

http://www.eagerplastics.com/cab.htm



I haven't tested the mixture but I wouldn't hesitate using it in Weld-On to bond the windows.

 Dave Saylor

 AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 10:45 AM, nukeflyboy <flymoore(at)charter.net (flymoore(at)charter.net)> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: "nukeflyboy" <flymoore(at)charter.net (flymoore(at)charter.net)>

 

 Why on earth would you want to add cabosil to Weld-on?  Do you have any data that confirms that the adhesive strength won't be compromised?

 

 Cabosil or milled glass fibers are added to epoxy for structural strength.  That means it is harder and stands up better to shear forces.  It says nothing about its adhesive abilities.  You should assume that anything you add to the Weld-on will decrease its adhesion.  The same goes for micro balloons and epoxy.

   

 --------

 Dave Moore

 RV-6 flying

 RV-10 QB - FWF

 

 

 

 

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nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: Re: windows & fiberglass

Dave,



Maybe defining my terms helps the communication.  By adhesion I mean how well the weld-on (or epoxy or whatever) bonds to the original substrate.  To work it must chemically combine to provide good adhesion.  By strength I mean how well the adhesive holds up to compressive, tensile, or shear forces.  Adding cabosil or glass fibers add strength.  The goo is much harder when it cures.   However they must decrease the adhesive ability because the fibers do not chemically combine with the substrate.  That means less surface area for the weld-on to bond with the plexi or fiberglass because there are fibers in the way.  It is important for good adhesion in this application, not so much for strength.



If you use micro balloons then you lose both adhesion and strength.



It may be that the loss of adhesion is insignificant with cabosil added; I can't tell from the technical note linked in your reply.



But you know this stuff better than I and I defer to your opinion.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

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