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Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA



Don't be misinformed here is an article with the real facts. Be one of the informed on LSA maintenance and your Rotax engine.



Article by Carol Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation.



http://www.rainbowaviation.com/articles/draft%20rotax%20training.pdf



This is a must read for the LSA community.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

The complete URL is:



http://www.rainbowaviation.com/articles/draft%20rotax%20training.pdf



Or as a tiny URL:



http://tinyurl.com/yfgwjsr



-- Craig 



--

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Interesting reading, indeed.



Roger,

I have a couple question regarding this subject:



1) Can you quote line and verse in the ASTM rules that state that a certified mechanic must have Engine Manufacturer's Certification to work on that engine in an SLSA? If so, please do.



2) I've not read any recent revisions of the ASTM rule but if my memory is correct, the manufacturer is responsible for stating the qualification requirements of mechanics or repairmen who do work on their SLSA aircraft. Is this not still the case? If it is still the case, then what certifications a mechanic or repariman must have is dictated in that specific manufacturer's maintenance manual. If it is not the case then it must be stated in the ASTM rules for certification to be mandatory.



I've just finished reading the current (Oct/2009) 912 Maintenance Manual, particularly the parts about who can work on these engines, i.e., pages 18, 24 & 28. Careful reading of this indicates to me that CERTIFICATION by Rotax is not an absolute requirement by BRP-Powertrain. Qualification can be attained by alternate methods, according to my reading of this document. CERTIFICATION by Rotax may or may not be a requirement of the individual SLSA manufacturers. 



I'm not trying to get into an argument with you, Roger, but just because Rainbow Aviation makes a statement, does not mean it is true. Same for EAA. The only written statements that carry legal weight are from the FAA (in the USA), ASTM (for SLSA), and the manufacturers maintenance manuals and pertinent documentation. If none of these make the statement that CERTIFICATION from Rotax is mandatory, then it is not a legal requirement.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Hi Thom,



No argument here. I like to discuss things and actually happy to do so. I hope you guys are staying warm back there?



I hope I don't muddy the waters more. The article is 100% correct. I have been over this with Edsel Ford of the FAA (top LSA admin) and other SLSA Mfg's.



ASTM doesn't apply quite the same to SLSA as GA because we aren't certified aircraft and the FAA gives the SLSA Mfg god like powers over their own aircraft. (within reason of course). When reading the ASTM's you have to make sure in the statement you are reading if it means certified aircraft, includes SLSA or exempts SLSA and or gives power on that particular area to the SLSA Mfg.

You are right. The SLSA Mfg. dictates who can do the maint and what level of training is required. If it isn't stated then an A&P or RLSM is good to go. Most SLSA Mfg's state either "owner" for the simple things, RLSM or A&P for the other items. If the SLSA Mfg says either and RLSM or A&P then that's it, the owner is out of that function. 

If the SLSA Mfg says follow the Rotax maint manual (like most do) then all have to follow that directive. An SLSA Mfg must actually state Owner, RLSM or A&P in their language. It absolutely can not just say an "RLSM or higher grade certificate". I went through this with 2 SLSA mfg's and they had to correct their language because the FAA doesn't have a higher grade certificate in the mechanic ranks. In the pilot ranks yes, but not for mechanics. You are either an RLSM, an A&P or an IA recognized by the FAA.



Here is an example:

In the Flight Design Maint manual under engine inspection it list "owner", but he must follow the Rotax maint manual according to the that section.

So you go to the Rotax manual for authorization and it specifically states that anyone regardless of your credentials must have a Rotax school. 

So if the owner were to attend a Rotax school he would be allowed to do some things on his own engine even if it is an SLSA. So long as you follow you LSA Mfg's instructions.

These FD rules that give Rotax the final say on an authorization also apply to RLSM's, A&P's and IA's. 



It has nothing to do with the ASTM standards per-say. We are not certified aircraft which means we tend to follow more of the SLSA's instructions or directives. It is what is in each individual SLSA's maint manual and who they give permission and if they say follow the Rotax manual. Then everyone is locked into getting Rotax training regardless of your credentials. 



The big catch phrase is"Does your SLSA maint. manual say to follow the Rotax manual"?



If it does then Rotax school is in your future.

As an A&P without a Rotax school you can't even sign off an annual condition inspection if it included a Rotax engine. If an A&P signs off an annual and has never been to a Rotax school then that SLSA is no longer airworthy.

The article spells this out very clearly. Carol Carpenter of Rainbow Aviation is on the committees that develop these rules and regs. for the SLSA community. I have heard there are as many as 150 people on these committees including AOPA, EAA, LSA mfgs and other concerned people.

If I muddied the water let me know and I'll try and word it better. Sometimes my wording isn't as clear as it could be.



Have a good New Year, Thom,

Roger Lee

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

To further confuse the issue, or at least make it even more "interesting", are those type certificated aircraft that use type certificated Rotax 912 engines... especially interesting since they existed before the ASTM and SP/LSA rule came about. The Diamond Katana manual at the time of its last production (later replaced with Cont. IO-240 engine) states 



The following Documentation should be used in conjunction with this manual: 

- DA 20 KATANA Flight Manual 

- DA 20/100 KATANA Flight Manual 

- Instruction Manual for the Hoffmann propeller 

- Service Bulletins 

- Operator's Manual for all versions of the ROTAX 912  

- Maintenance Manual for ROTAX Engine Type 912 Series 



and that is pretty much all it states regarding engine maintenance other than maintenance and inspection schedule, which then refers to Rotax manuals. Interestingly, Diamond REQUIRES use of 100LL as the only approved fuel.



Because it is a type certificated airplane you (Roger) as an RSLM cannot work on the Rotax engine (or any other part of the airplane) except for preventive maintenance and then only if you are the owner and have a Private Pilot or higher certificate. But I can because I am a certified Powerplant Mechanic.  Threading the needle through the regulations requires patience and perseverance. 



We got a break from the cold today. It went up to 34 today.



Happy New Year to all Rotaxers.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Hi Thom,



I almost forgot. If you have an ELSA then this guy is allowed to do the work.    

He works for Suburban.

No offense to anyone that really resembles him.   LOL   

http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/4qt.htm



Here is the website for all the commercials.



http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Only if the owner says he can .

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Suburban Auto Group does not operate in this part of the world so all those Trunk Monkey commercials are completely new to me. I'll spread them around, 'cuz they are indeed funny.



do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Hi Thom,



Your right I can not work on "Certified" aircraft with my RLSM cert which makes me happy to no end, especially when I see the other A&P's cussing up a storm at the certified airplane that is usually old, oilly and needs lots of TLC. 

 The SLSA are all newer aircraft, clean and no parts falling off. I am tickled pink not to have to work on  20-60 year old Cessna's or Piper's.

I really only specialize on LSA aircraft and Rotax engines and even more specifically the 912. Specializing in only a single engine company and just a few LSA aircraft lets me really stay up on all the specifics to the LSA community. I think it helps me be more in tune with my customer's needs, too.



34F? It really gets that cold. Burrrr, I need a jacket below 72F.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Roger,

  I am sure glad I am a "trunk monkey " and can work on my own experimental amateur built !!! At least I did attend two Lockwood Rotax schools. I will be attending the two stroke and 'recurrent" 912 schools at the end of the month.

  This LSA stuff is a real pain in the butt regulation wise.

  I had a friend of mine accuse me of going to the "dark side" when I bought my Kitfox. I bought a small Darth Vader sticker and stuck it on my airplane. Now I will have to get a "monkey" sticker.

                                                           Dick Maddux

                                                           Kitfox 4

                                                           912UL

                                                           Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Happy New Year Dick,



Hope all is well?



Those Trunk Monkey's are expensive and they're hard on torque wrenches.   

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being ones own mechanic. Many owners are far more knowledgeable than RLSM's or A&P's when talking about their plane. Knowledge acquisition is an individual thing regardless of our backgrounds. The article was in the hopes to educate and keep people from getting in trouble or fined. The whole intent of the original article was education for all. Regardless of ones creds or background, education is the key to most things in life.



I have to go back for my Rotax update in Feb. to keep my Rotax Repair authorization. 



Nothing wrong with the Dark Side it can be much more fun!!!!!

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: Rotax Training Requirements and Your LSA

Happy New Year to you too Roger !

 I have flown my Kitfox more than any of the other 14 planes I have owned. It is a lot more fun! It's not as practical for a cross country but if I want to do that I 'll jump on a "smoker"( and wait in line forever)

 I've been working on airplanes since I was 25 and almost had my A&P, but had to go to work, so I feel real comfortable doing my own work. We have 3 AI's and at least 5 other A&P's at my field so there is no problem with expertise or sign off's.I have my CFI so we pretty much swap off services.

  Your article was excellent and I agree with you 100%. As I have mentioned earlier, most of the problems Lockwood has faced with this engine has been created by A&P's working on them without knowledge of the differences between them and Lyc/Cont (i.e.: without Rotax training) This was mentioned in the first day of class. I don't work on the Rotax engine as much as you do,thus,the refresher course.

  Keep the good stuff coming!

                                                     Dick Maddux

                                                     912 UL

                                                     Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

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