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AMSAFE inflatable belts

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tdawson-townsend(at)auror
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

Has anyone asked AmSafe if they’d sell their air bag inflatable aviation belts to homebuilders?  And how much they would cost?  Or would one have to let AmSafe’s authorized service center install them?  

   

TDT  

40025  

Wiring the radio stack  

   

   

   

Tim Dawson-Townsend  

Aurora Flight Sciences  

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)   

617-500-4812 (office)  

617-905-4800 (mobile)  

   

      [quote][b]

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

I'm interested in this too and can't find  anything about it for homebuilders.  I'm a big believer that this  would be a life saver or at least be able to walk away from an engine  failure.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

I have forwarded this to my AMSAFE contact. The question has  been asked before with non committal results

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Dawson-Townsend,Timothy

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:30  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: AMSAFE  inflatable belts

Has anyone asked AmSafe if they’d sell their air bag  inflatable aviation belts to homebuilders?  And how much they would  cost?  Or would one have to let AmSafe’s authorized service center install  them? 

TDT 

40025 

Wiring the radio stack 

Tim Dawson-Townsend 

Aurora Flight Sciences 

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)   

617-500-4812 (office) 

617-905-4800 (mobile) 

[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:08 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

They were taking names and model numbers at OSH last year just to get a feel for how successful the homebuilt market would be and which models they should be concerned with.  Ditto with the BRS chute folks too….  

   

Not sure if anything ever happened with the data though.  

       

From: Seano [mailto:sean(at)braunandco.com] 

 Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:53 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AMSAFE inflatable belts  

  

  

     

I'm interested in this too and can't find anything about it for homebuilders.  I'm a big believer that this would be a life saver or at least be able to walk away from an engine failure.  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy (tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:29 AM  

    

Subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts  

    

   

  

Has anyone asked AmSafe if they’d sell their air bag inflatable aviation belts to homebuilders?  And how much they would cost?  Or would one have to let AmSafe’s authorized service center install them?  

   

TDT  

40025  

Wiring the radio stack  

   

   

   

Tim Dawson-Townsend  

Aurora Flight Sciences  

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)   

617-500-4812 (office)  

617-905-4800 (mobile)  

    	  Quote: 	
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      [quote][b]

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:56 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

The problem with both items are the attach points and the fail  safe activation of the item. Considerable design would be required to implement  inflatable belts or BRS in an experimental. With many experimentals, the volume  required to justify the design costs would not exist. In addition  there is  no guarantee that each experimental of a given class would be structurally  identical to the others. With a small market and little control over the  construction process, the risk of accident/lawsuit would far exceed the rewards.  IIRC the costs per inflatable seat restraint was going to be about $2500+ each  assuming that an acceptable installation design could be determined. .  

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:06 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: AMSAFE inflatable  belts

They were taking names and model  numbers at OSH last year just to get a feel for how successful the homebuilt  market would be and which models they should be concerned with.  Ditto with  the BRS chute folks too…. 

Not sure if anything ever  happened with the data though. 

From: Seano  [mailto:sean(at)braunandco.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:53  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List:  AMSAFE inflatable belts

I'm interested in  this too and can't find anything about it for homebuilders.  I'm a big  believer that this would be a life saver or at least be able to walk away from  an engine failure.

  	  Quote: 	

----- Original    Message ----- 

From: Dawson-Townsend,Timothy (tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero)    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)    

Sent: Tuesday, January    05, 2010 7:29 AM

Subject: AMSAFE    inflatable belts

Has anyone asked AmSafe if they’d sell their air bag    inflatable aviation belts to homebuilders?  And how much they would    cost?  Or would one have to let AmSafe’s authorized service center    install them?   

TDT   

40025   

Wiring the radio stack   

Tim Dawson-Townsend   

Aurora Flight Sciences   

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)       

617-500-4812 (office)   

617-905-4800 (mobile)   

  	  Quote: 	
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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:02 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

Lancair has them for sale.  I'm sure they would sell them to non-Lancair builders for $4,390 per pair.

 http://www.lancair.com/Main/iv_ivp_options.html

222-0008-A Airbag Seat Belts (Available in black only, Pilot\Co-pilot only) $4,390.00  PR 

 KDS0140  3 Point Inertial Reel Front Seat Belt Black    $370.00  EA 

KDS0141  3 Point Inertial Reel Front Seat Belt -*Special Color  $395.00  EA 

 

-- 

William

N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 

 

 On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero (tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Has anyone asked AmSafe if they’d sell their air bag inflatable aviation belts to homebuilders?  And how much they would cost?  Or would one have to let AmSafe’s authorized service center install them?  

  

TDT 

40025 

Wiring the radio stack 

  

  

  

Tim Dawson-Townsend 

Aurora Flight Sciences 

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)  

617-500-4812 (office) 

617-905-4800 (mobile)



	
  

 [quote]   



[b]

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

Lancair sells a system for their kits: 



http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=222-0008



I'm not sure if they would sell to other brands.  We looked at it for a customer and you pretty much had to forfeit the rear footwells to install them in a Lancair IV because of all the added structure.

  Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Dawson-Townsend,Timothy <tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero (tdawson-townsend(at)aurora.aero)> wrote:

[quote]                 

Has anyone asked AmSafe if they’d sell their air bag inflatable aviation belts to homebuilders?  And how much they would cost?  Or would one have to let AmSafe’s authorized service center install them?  

   

TDT  

40025  

Wiring the radio stack  

   

   

   

Tim Dawson-Townsend  

Aurora Flight Sciences  

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)   

617-500-4812 (office)  

617-905-4800 (mobile)  

   

       	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

lbgjb10

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 67

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:45 am Post subject: Re: AMSAFE inflatable belts

If you're talking about airbag harnesses I flew with the shoulder 'air bags' on a cirrus and found them to be the most uncomfortable harnesses i've ever used--including many military planes.  i asked the cirrus rep flying with me and he said he would take them off in flight because they were uncomfortable!!!  on the other hand i wished we could put the parachute on the -10 like cirrus has.  larry

_________________
Larry and Gayle N104LG

2369488

Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 1

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: AMSAFE Seatbelt Airbags

Thanks for the interest in our airbag kits.



Whether the kit is STC'd or going into a light sport aircraft the development programs are essentially the same.  All of our kits under go a complete engineering development program including dynamic testing (sled test).  There are some common parts but each kit is developed specifically for the individual aircraft model.



We offer our seatbelt airbag kits through OEMs and a network of service centers who can sell, install and service our kits.  We have been collecting information at various shows (EAA/Fun N Sun) to determine market interest for the homebuilder market.  This is an on-going process and is still being assessed.



Information on AmSafe Seatbelt Airbags can be found at www.gaairbags.com including a list of airbag kits available by aircraft model.



Sincerely,

_________________
Stephen Marshall
Dir. Sales/Marketing GA Seatbelt Airbags
AmSafe

Ron B.

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 103
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: AMSAFE inflatable belts

Hello Mr. Marshall

Sorry to sort of hijacking this thread, but it is still an Amsafe inertial seat belt inquiry. 

Today we removed one of our Amsafe inertial reels from my Supercub. It is part # 4022-1-061, it's about four years old. We installed it (temporary) in our RV-10 that is under construction. The fuselage has been painted inside and out at this time. Reading other post on the RV forums I've read that to install an Amsafe inertial real that the 3/8" hole is not used and four # 10 bolts along with new hard points. The reel that I have mentioned above only has two 1/4" holes along with the 3/8" hole ( the 3/8" hole is what secures the reel in my Supercub) . This leads me to believe this reel is not the reel most are using in their RV-10's. First question is , could this type of reel be used in the RV-10 ( we are only interested in the front seat positions)? We are not engineers but if the structure of this reel is adequate and Van's hard point along with the 5/16" supplied will hold a non inertial reel belt, I do not see why it will not hold the above reel. The belt comes out of the reel almost in the same position it would on a straight belt (non reel) system, ie. in line. With a standard belt it would not be as tight other than when a pilot nows he is about to have a bad landing so the fetch up would be quite sever there.

We are too far along to modify our canopy and if we don't find an alternative we will have to go with the standard belts.

My last question (for now at least) is if the above could work, this part # belt would have to have the two "V" web lengthened about a foot to clear the headrest( one web on each side) . Is this something that could be done?

Hopefully I'm making myself understood.

Thanks Ron

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: AMSAFE inflatable belts

The AMSAFE belts for the 10 were first considered by myself when I

discovered an AMSAFE reel belt in a Super Cub; I found the right contact at

AMSAFE and they told me that the Super Cub belt would not work ; so began

the process to design a new setup. If you have looked at the setup on

www.inertialbelts.com you see a friend creating the additional hard points

on the inside of the lid. These can be created , perhaps more easily from

the outside; its the same process of marking the holes and drilling with a

hole saw though the external layers but not the interior layers, removing

the foam and creating the hard point. Reinforcing cloth/tape is then applied

across the hard points.  then the procedure from the website for the

aluminum blocks applies. AMSAFE wanted the additional hard points and the

structural strength increase. I had some neighbors (consulting engineers)

evaluate the the hardpoints differences and found that the anchor was 5-8

times stronger than the plans approach. Also a consideration is that the

single countersunk screw that the plans callout has no countersunk washer to

spread the load and the single screw with fixed belts "works" the  screw in

the fiberglass each time the shoulder strap is loaded. I am unfamiliar with

the bracket that you describe on the Super Cub belt. If you want to discuss,

my phone is 480-626-4048. 



--

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