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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:07 am Post subject: Kiev Prop

As mentioned on this list previously, I have been particularly enamored with the Kiev prop  since I first saw it on a Highlander. Its a beautiful prop with semi scimitar blades.

 I have been waiting to hear about the results of a test conducted by the SE rep for Paradise aircraft (Brazilian SLSA) who is a friend of mine. Paradise offers their aircraft with the Warp prop but wanted to try some others in the interest of efficiency.  They tried the new Sensenich propeller but only realized a mile or two diff in speed and it was a little rougher running than the Warp. The current prop they are testing is the Kiev. Preliminary reports are showing a 10mph increase in cruise speed with turbine like smoothness in similar flying conditions as the Warp. Well, that was enough for me, so I ordered one.

  I am currently writing down all the numbers,etc that I am getting from my tapered tip Warp prop. I will compare the two when I have it installed and report the change, if any here. 

                                                                                                             Dick Maddux

                                                                                                             Fox 4-1200

                                                                                                             912UL

                                                                                                             Milton,Fl

  

  [quote][b]

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Kiev Prop

Dick,

I'm not sure if it's relevant or not...but as an FYI.  One of the guys at our airport flys a Thundergull with a HKS engine and Kiev prop.  He developed a vibration but was never able to find the problem.  Two weeks ago while he had the prop and prop-spacer off, I was looking at his parts and noticed the prop-spacer had a large diagonal crack in it.  It went almost all the way through the spacer.  You could actually pull on each side and make the crack larger...wasn't much left holding it together!



Kiev is shipping him a new spacer from Germany (I believe).



Hope all is well!  My Vixen is back together and should be ready to fly again this week.



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: Kiev Prop

Travis,

  What did you decide to do about your alternator/coupler.  So far the lighter B and C alternator  I installed is working fine.



Maxwell Duke

 Kitfox S6/TD/IO240

 Maule M7 235C For Sale

 Dublin, GA



--- On Sun, 1/17/10, FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: Kiev Prop

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, January 17, 2010, 11:54 AM



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FlyboyTR" <[url=/mc/compose?to=flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net]flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net[/url]>



Dick,

I'm not sure if it's relevant or not...but as an FYI.  One of the guys at our airport flys a Thundergull with a HKS engine and Kiev prop.  He developed a vibration but was never able to find the problem.  Two weeks ago while he had the prop and prop-spacer off, I was looking at his parts and noticed the prop-spacer had a large diagonal crack in it.  It went  almost all the way through the spacer.  You could actually pull on each side and make the crack larger...wasn't much left holding it together!



Kiev is shipping him a new spacer from Germany (I believe).



Hope all is well!  My Vixen is back together and should be ready to fly again this week.



Travis   



--------

Travis Rayner

Mobile, AL

Skystar Vixen, N-789DF

Continental IO-240,  Prince P-Tip Prop

ADI-II Autopilot

AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281919#281919

onics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com========================h=





	


         [quote][b]

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Kiev Prop

I installed a rebuilt coupler.  At max capacity I'm running 37 amps.  So my stock 60 amp alternator really isn't working all that hard.  Couldn't see purchasing a different alternator and it still requires the use of the poorly designed and expensive Continental coupling.



I am, however, glad that your new B&C alternator is working out!    Take care!...



Mike,...sorry for hijacking your prop thread!     



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: Kiev prop

I just mounted my Kiev prop and wanted to show a picture of it. I haven't flown it yet as I am still doing the set up. There are some hub differences between it and the Warp. I do like the Warps method of attaching the prop hub to the flange better than Kievs. The Warp uses the outer holes with bushings into the hub where the Kiev uses the inner 8 mm holes  (I have a mid 90's engine) I am currently trying to find some better prop bolts. The Kiev distributor says that the only 8 mm bolts that will work are made by the Chinese. I don't buy that and am currently looking for better prop bolts. I know AN bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to be something equally as good that will work. The prop flange on my engine has threaded holes for the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must thread into them and then I will safety wire the head of the bolts as I did with my Warp.

  As soon as I get everything taken care of I will put the results on this forum. I hope it performs as well as it looks! It sure did on the Paradise, Highlander and other aircraft.

                                                                Dick Maddux

                                                                Fox 4

                                                                Milton,Fl

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Kiev Prop

Dick,  Go talk to your local Fastenall dealer, get someone who is a little experienced and tell them what you are looking for, comparable to AN hardware in a metric.



I've had good luck with them.

_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
YouTube Videos

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: Kiev prop

Dick,



For what it's worth, when I was mounting my first Warp prop, I found that 

the 5/16 bolts were a bit tighter in the holes than the 8mm metric bolts.  I 

measured a sample on hand - actually the original unused 8mm and an old AN 

5/16" and the diameters are .308 and .311 inches respectively - the AN bolt 

a tad larger.



Lowell



---

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Kiev Prop

Dick,

This is the company I use for my prop bolts, nuts, etc.  http://www.sabermfg.com/



They do not list metric on their website, but, in the past they have provided appropriate metric prop bolts to several folks I know.  They are real picky about "what" they sell.



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: Kiev prop

On Wed, January 20, 2010 8:28 am, Lowell Fitt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Dick,



 For what it's worth, when I was mounting my first Warp prop, I found that

 the 5/16 bolts were a bit tighter in the holes than the 8mm metric bolts.  I

 measured a sample on hand - actually the original unused 8mm and an old AN

 5/16" and the diameters are .308 and .311 inches respectively - the AN bolt

 a tad larger.


	


That's surprising since the nominal sizes are:



5/16" == 0.3125"

8 mm  == 0.3150"



Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly smaller, not larger.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: Kiev prop

At 06:52 AM 1/20/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I know AN bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to be 

something equally as good that will work. The prop flange on my 

engine has threaded holes for the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must 

thread into them and then I will safety wire the head of the bolts 

as I did with my Warp.


	


Roger,

         I use 8mm bolts I obtained from CPS, 

http://www.800-airwolf.com/. They were drilled, too.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Kiev prop

A 5/16 AN5 is 7,9375 mm, on most bolts they are a bit smaller then that



an 8 mm bolt is 8.0000 mm and thread pitch is 1.2500 mm/t or fine pitch 

thread 1.0000 mm



AN5 -24 have 24 threads per inch = tread pitch is 1.058 mm

and is rated 125000 psi, that is 87,9 kg/mm2 or 862 MPa That will be a  9.8 

class metric bolt



      Table 10

      MECHANICAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CARBON STEEL

      EXTERNALLY-THREADED METRIC FASTENERS



      Property Class Designation Nominal Size of Product Material and 

Treatment Mechanical Requirements Property Class Ident. Marking

      Proof Load Stress, MPa Tensile Yield Strength, MPa, Min. Tensile 

Ultimate Strength, MPa, Min. Prod. Hardness, Rockwell

      Surface, Max. Core

      Min. Max.



      4.6 M5-M100 low or medium carbon steel 225 240 400 -- B67 B95 4.6

      4.8 M1.6-M16 low or medium carbon steel, fully or partially annealed 

310 340 420 -- B71 B95 4.8

      5.8 M5-M24 low or medium carbon steel, cold worked 380 420 520 -- B82 

B95 5.8

      8.8 M16-M72 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 

30N56 C23 C34 8.8

      A325M Type 1 M16-M36 A325M  8S

      8.8 M16-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 600 660 830 

30N56 C23 C34 8.8

      A325M Type 2 A325M  8S

      A325M Type 3 M16-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched 

and tempered 600 660 830 30N56 C23 C34 A325M  8S3

      9.8 M1.6-M16 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 

30N58 C27 C36 9.8

      9.8 M1.6-M16 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 650 720 900 

30N58 C27 C36 9.8

      10.9 M5-M20 medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 

30N59 C33 C39 10.9

      10.9 M5-M100 medium carbon alloy steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 

1040 30N59 C33 C39 10.9

      A490M Type 1 M12-M36 A490M  10S

      10.9 M5-M36 low carbon boron steel, quenched and tempered 830 940 1040 

30N59 C33 C39 10.9

      A490M Type 2 M12-M36 A490M  10S

      A490M Type 3 M12-M36 atmospheric corrosion resistant steel, quenched 

and tempered 830 940 1040 30N59 C33 C39 A490M  10S3

      12.9 M1.6-M100 alloy steel, quenched and tempered 970 1100 1220 30N63 

C38 C44 12.9



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 That's surprising since the nominal sizes are:



 5/16" == 0.3125"

 8 mm  == 0.3150"



 Which suggests to me that the 5/16" AN bolt would be very slightly 

 smaller, not larger.



 -- 

 Paul A. Franz

 Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

 Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

 Bellevue WA

 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 

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 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.



 


	




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Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: Kiev prop

Dick, I had to find a source for 8mm longer bolts when I put on my prop extension. Fastenal had to order them. but, they got them in a few days no problem.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL

 



 

 On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:52 AM, <catz631(at)aol.com (catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]  I just mounted my Kiev prop and wanted to show a picture of it. I haven't flown it yet as I am still doing the set up. There are some hub differences between it and the Warp. I do like the Warps method of attaching the prop hub to the flange better than Kievs. The Warp uses the outer holes with bushings into the hub where the Kiev uses the inner 8 mm holes  (I have a mid 90's engine) I am currently trying to find some better prop bolts. The Kiev distributor says that the only 8 mm bolts that will work are made by the Chinese. I don't buy that and am currently looking for better prop bolts. I know AN bolts are not made in metric sizes, but there has to be something equally as good that will work. The prop flange on my engine has threaded holes for the 8 mm bolts so the bolts must thread into them and then I will safety wire the head of the bolts as I did with my Warp.

   As soon as I get everything taken care of I will put the results on this forum. I hope it performs as well as it looks! It sure did on the Paradise, Highlander and other aircraft.

                                                                Dick Maddux

                                                                Fox 4

                                                                Milton,Fl 



[b]

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject: Kiev prop

Well, it looks like you guys were right. You just can't get a great deal of performance improvement by switching props. I tried the first test of my Kiev today and it was rather disappointing. Here are some of the results:

       1. Warp prop:

             Take off rpm 5400, cruise 88mph (at)5000 rpm (at)52 degrees temp

       2. Kiev prop:

             Take off rpm 5400,cruise 82mph (at) 5000rpm (at) 70 degrees

              Full throttle reached 5800 rpm (did not note speed)

  

 All of this was done at 1200 AGL. The test with the Kiev was done without the spinner so perhaps that will help the cruise a bit. Further tweaking with the prop pitch might give me better results. I had to land as a mighty big thunderstorm was approaching.

  This aircraft is not all that speedy anyway due to the fat tires, bush gear,80hp,etc..lots of drag.

  As soon as the weather gets better in a few days, I will test it some more.                                                            Dick Maddux

                                                            Fox 4

                                                            Milton,Fl

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: Kiev Prop

Dick, Another Fastenall satisfied customer heard from. If I remember correctly there were 2 grades of the 8mm bolts. I can't remember the specifics. I was satisfied with the specs of the harder one I believe.

  Pat Reilly

 On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Av8r3400 <theav8rweb(at)yahoo.com (theav8rweb(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Av8r3400" <theav8rweb(at)yahoo.com (theav8rweb(at)yahoo.com)>

 

Dick,  Go talk to your local Fastenall dealer, get someone who is a little experienced and tell them what you are looking for, comparable to AN hardware in a metric.



I've had good luck with them.



--------

 Thanks,

Av8r3400



Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO

Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282473#282473

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 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

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[b]

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: Kiev prop

Hi Dick C  I wish we were closer to each other.  I have a brand new 72" 3 blade IVO with the ultralight blades hanging on the wall that will end up on my Kitfox 4 with the 912 once I have the plane done.  As long as you are getting performance numbers on props C it would be interesting to bolt the IVO on and see how it compares to the other props.  Take care C  Jim Chuk  Avids C  Kitfox 4  Mn

 PS  bummer about the Kiev not doing better

  From: catz631(at)aol.com

Date: Wed C 20 Jan 2010 17:11:24 -0500

Subject: Kiev prop

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Well C it looks like you guys were right. You just can't get a great deal of performance improvement by switching props. I tried the first test of my Kiev today and it was rather disappointing. Here are some of the results:

       1. Warp prop:

             Take off rpm 5400 C cruise 88mph (at)5000 rpm (at)52 degrees temp

       2. Kiev prop:

             Take off rpm 5400 Ccruise 82mph (at) 5000rpm (at) 70 degrees

              Full throttle reached 5800 rpm (did not note speed)

 All of this was done at 1200 AGL. The test with the Kiev was done without the spinner so perhaps that will help the cruise a bit. Further tweaking with the prop pitch might give me better results. I had to land as a mighty big thunderstorm was approaching.

  This aircraft is not all that speedy anyway due to the fat tires C bush gear C80hp Cetc..lots of drag.

  As soon as the weather gets better in a few days C I will test it some more.                                                            Dick Maddux

                                                            Fox 4

                                                            Milton CFl

 	  Quote: 	

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

ronics.com

ww.matronics.com/contribution

 		 	   		  Hotmail: Free C trusted and rich  target='_new'>Get it now.  [quote][b]

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: Kiev prop

I love this stuff.



I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as 

new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the thread 

end of the shank.  As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier .787mm 

at the head end and .786mm at the thread end.  I can't explain it nor do I 

have any inclination to try to.  I simply put a digital caliper on a couple 

of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt is 

larger and the larger bolt is smaller.  Just for fun, I measured the rest of 

the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. 

I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 and 

7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality control 

it seems.



I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are 

some bolts that I can hold in my  hand and mearure.  And I guess I'm just 

too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should 

measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them.  As I said in my 

original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the 

holes. so I went with them.  Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts Warp 

sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts.  I have no way of knowing 

that after ten years.



Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been 

to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough 

time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in 

an 8.000 mm hole.  Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. 

drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts?



Lowell

---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: Kiev prop

Lowell, probably the main reason that the AN bolt felt tighter might be 

because the thread pitch between AN and metric is slightly different.  Then 

again, you probably already know that.

Deke

[quote] 



 I love this stuff.



 I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as 

 new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the 

 thread end of the shank.  As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier 

 .787mm at the head end and .786mm at the thread end.  I can't explain it 

 nor do I have any inclination to try to.  I simply put a digital caliper 

 on a couple of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the 

 smaller bolt is larger and the larger bolt is smaller.  Just for fun, I 

 measured the rest of the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged 

 from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they 

 came in between 7.87 and 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - 

 pretty good quality control it seems.



 I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are 

 some bolts that I can hold in my  hand and mearure.  And I guess I'm just 

 too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should 

 measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them.  As I said in 

 my original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in 

 the holes. so I went with them.  Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts 

 Warp sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts.  I have no way of 

 knowing that after ten years.



 Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been 

 to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough 

 time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in 

 an 8.000 mm hole.  Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. 

 drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts?



 Lowell

 ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Kiev prop

Dick,  That is a sharp looking prop for sure.  The numbers really suck though.  I hope it gets better.  I find the  912 works well with IVO UL or medium.  

I am really surprised of you numbers though,  You should be well over 100 mph in cruise at 5000rpm  -- morel like 110 mph..  



My  little 582 cruise on skis yesterday was 91 mph (at) 5900 rpm .



I just added more Kitfox videos today flying 

http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer



Get us some numbers now at 100 mph plus.

 	  Dick Maddux wrote: 	
		  Well, it looks like you guys were right. You just can't get a great deal of performance improvement by switching props. I tried the first test of my Kiev today and it was rather disappointing. Here are some of the results:

       1. Warp prop:

             Take off rpm 5400, cruise 88mph (at)5000 rpm (at)52 degrees temp

       2. Kiev prop:

             Take off rpm 5400,cruise 82mph (at) 5000rpm (at) 70 degrees

            ï¿½ Full throttle reached 5800 rpm (did not note speed)

  

 All of this was done at 1200 AGL. The test with the Kiev was done without the spinner so perhaps that will help the cruise a bit. Further tweaking with the prop pitch might give me better results. I had to land as a mighty big thunderstorm was approaching.

  This aircraft is not all that speedy anyway due to the fat tires, bush gear,80hp,etc..lots of drag.

  As soon as the weather gets better in a few days, I will test it some more.                      ï¿½           ï¿½                         Dick Maddux

            ï¿½           ï¿½            ï¿½           ï¿½          Fox 4

            ï¿½           ï¿½            ï¿½           ï¿½          Milton,Fl

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: Kiev prop

Lowell, you say you used 5/16" bolts in the 8mm bolt holes. I originally bought 5/16 " bolts for my prop not thinking. I tried to put one in and remembered immediately Rotax is a meteric engine. I bought 8mm bolts from Fastenal. I didn't try to force the 5/16 " bolt in. I figured the # of threads, and pitch woukd be different enough that and it would strip. Are you saying the 8mm and 5/16" threads are close enough that you can use a 5/16" bolt in an 8mm tapped hole and just get a little more interference without stripping threads?

   

 Pa t Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

I love this stuff.



I just remeasured the 8mm bolt that was sent with my first Warp Prop - as new unused - and it measured .784mm at the head end and.779mm at the thread end of the shank.  As I said, the 5/16" bolt measured a bit heavier .787mm at the head end and .786mm at the thread end.  I can't explain it nor do I have any inclination to try to.  I simply put a digital caliper on a couple of bolts and voila as they say somewhere in metric land, the smaller bolt is larger and the larger bolt is smaller.  Just for fun, I measured the rest of the six unused prop bolts and the mearurements ranged from 7.79 to 7.81 mm. I also meareured a handful of new AN bolts and they came in between 7.87 and 7.89 with all but two of about ten at 7.89 mm - pretty good quality control it seems.

 

I guess we might argue the specs from the spec sheet, but all I have are some bolts that I can hold in my  hand and mearure.  And I guess I'm just too lazy to google up the spec sheets to find what the bolts I have should measurure - it's just too easy to put the caliper on them.  As I said in my original post, I could tell by feel that the AN bolts were tighter in the holes. so I went with them.  Now, I guess it's possible that the bolts Warp sent with the prop were bargain basement bolts.  I have no way of knowing that after ten years.

 

Regarding the 8.000 mm measurements of the metric bolts, I have never been to Europe where all this metric stuff came about, but I have spent enough time in front of a lathe to know you simply cannot put an 8.000 mm bolt in an 8.000 mm hole.  Which brings up another question, I guess, is an 8 mm. drill really 8.0 mm or are they oversized to accommodate the bolts?

 

Lowell

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: Kiev prop

PAt,

  

 On your 582 the B or C or E box will have 2 sets of  holes

  

 one is 1/4 "  and early ones were tapped  to  1/4 UNF 

 other is a M8  and is tapped on all gear  box hubs.

  

  

 Dave

  

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