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Kolb/Harley/0-200

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biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

In all serious-ness, I gave heavy thought to the 0-200 when I started all 

this, because you're right - it's got the torque without the reduction 

drive, it's bulletproof, (or very close to it) many of them out 

there.......(uh - not really - read on) simple, etc., etc.  Then I found 

that there is an 0-200A which is what you'll find all over, on Cessna 150's, 

etc.  We would want the 0-200B which apparently has the thrust bearing area 

machined differently for a pusher application.  Never did really chase after 

one, but haven't ever noticed one, either.  I believe they're quite rare. 

Then I talked to Klaus at Lightspeed Aviation, who is using the 0-200A with 

pleasure and success on his Long EZ's.  (I think)  Go figure. 

Lar.                Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

jadamson

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 13

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Here's a link to the company that seems to be the forerunner of the Skyray link referred to in another post:  http://www.hog-air.com/hogindex.htm



He used to show some performance specs but I couldn't find 'em since Skyray's now in the picture.  As I recall, though, he was running the engine at a fairly high RPM (3500+) to get the good HP/Torque values.  Which is a lot higher than I run on the highway in my Geezer Glide.



HD's Evo and TwinCam engines are a heckuva lot more reliable than the Shovels (still the best sounding HD engine, IMO).  And, the reduction drive is no more than the standard HD primary case turned vertical.  Plus fuel injection, if you want it.  On the downside, I'm not sure if dual ignition is available or not.  



As for weight. gotta be sure we're comparing apples to apples.  205 lbs all up, including mount, etc.  Comparing to the Corvair (and 0-200) and to quote William Wynne (FlyCorvair.com), "I have a lot of data that shows the Corvair has an installed flying weight of about 225-230 lbs. .... This is slightly below the installed weight of a typical O-200 Continental.".



For the cost difference, "user base" and experience with the engine, I'm liking the VW more & more.



Just my 2 pesos' worth to add to the confusion ...



John A

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Klause has a Varieze that he's been modifying for years. O2BAD pulls almost

140 HP from the O-200 and gets a top speed in excess of 240 Kts.



On 4/28/06, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com> wrote:

[quote]

 



 In all serious-ness, I gave heavy thought to the 0-200 when I started all

 this, because you're right - it's got the torque without the reduction

 drive, it's bulletproof, (or very close to it) many of them out

 there.......(uh - not really - read on) simple, etc., etc.  Then I found

 that there is an 0-200A which is what you'll find all over, on Cessna

 150's,

 etc.  We would want the 0-200B which apparently has the thrust bearing

 area

 machined differently for a pusher application.  Never did really chase

 after

 one, but haven't ever noticed one, either.  I believe they're quite rare.

 Then I talked to Klaus at Lightspeed Aviation, who is using the 0-200A

 with

 pleasure and success on his Long EZ's.  (I think)  Go figure.

 Lar.                Do not Archive.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com



 ---

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

I tried to talk to Kolb about a 0-200 or some other GA engine a few years 

ago. All they would say is "way too heavy". My VW is something like 170 +or- 

10 pounds or a whole lot less than a 0-200 or Corvair and I think the VW 

it's kind of at the limit for the big Kolbs.



Again my $.02



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc



---

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Yah, for sure they're quite a bit heavier, but I've never really been sure 

of just what that affects.  Let's say you've got a Mk III with a 190# pilot 

and a 220# engine.  Next to it, an identical (??) Mk III with a 220# pilot 

and a 190# engine.  Seems to me they should fly the same, assuming 

horsepower, etc. are the same.  I know, I know, if the 190# pilot had a Mk 

III with a 190# engine, he'd certainly see a benefit, but if weights are 

equal, performance should be equal..........or am I missing something ?? 

Lar.                Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

I think what you are missing is - It ain't the flying that causes 

problems, it's the unplanned sudden stops. Did you see the accident 

pictures of the MKIII Xtra that Norm passed away in? When the airplane 

pancaked in, the weight of the 912 collapsed the upper fuselage tubes 

and the 912 moved down and forward. Not a good thing. That is probably 

the reason why Kolb will not approve heavier engines. But if I were in 

their shoes, I wouldn't specify the "why" of the details either...



Therefore - even though I have had six Corvairs over the years, and 

found the engines to be smooth and bulletproof (although the cars always 

rusted - Body by Fisher - salt included - no extra charge) my MKIII 

won't ever have a Corvair engine.  Too heavy. A Rotax 582 sitting up 3' 

behind my head is light enough that if things go really bad, maybe it 

will stay 3' up behind my head...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



Larry Bourne wrote:

[quote] 



 Yah, for sure they're quite a bit heavier, but I've never really been sure 

 of just what that affects.  Let's say you've got a Mk III with a 190# pilot 

 and a 220# engine.  Next to it, an identical (??) Mk III with a 220# pilot 

 and a 190# engine.  Seems to me they should fly the same, assuming 

 horsepower, etc. are the same.  I know, I know, if the 190# pilot had a Mk 

 III with a 190# engine, he'd certainly see a benefit, but if weights are 

 equal, performance should be equal..........or am I missing something ?? 

 Lar.                Do not Archive.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com



 ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Leaving CG concerns aside,  crush factor could be a limitation.

The upper cage is built to withstand a reasonable downward/forward

force in a crash.  220#  might  cause some damage not foreseen.



Moving the pilot's position 10" forward would help, along with more

beefing of structure.  A MkIII already aint no "ultralight" even though

that's what folks on the ground think they are looking at.

Might better design a whole new plane for the O-200.

-BB do not archive



On 29, Apr 2006, at 4:58 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:



[quote] 



 Yah, for sure they're quite a bit heavier, but I've never really been 

 sure

 of just what that affects.  Let's say you've got a Mk III with a 190# 

 pilot

 and a 220# engine.  Next to it, an identical (??) Mk III with a 220# 

 pilot

 and a 190# engine.  Seems to me they should fly the same, assuming

 horsepower, etc. are the same.  I know, I know, if the 190# pilot had 

 a Mk

 III with a 190# engine, he'd certainly see a benefit, but if weights 

 are

 equal, performance should be equal..........or am I missing something 

 ??

 Lar.                Do not Archive.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com



 ---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

| Might better design a whole new plane for the O-200.

| -BB do not archive

Bob B/Gang:



Heard something similar not too long ago.  The aircraft should be 

designed around the engine.



Maybe that is what Homer Kolb did, rather than design the airplane, 

then go out and try to find a power plant to make it 

go.................



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Speaking of alternative engines,  I actually made my first flight of 

the season

before May.   This evening I did a little tour about the neighborhood.

My seat belt must have shrunk a little over the winter but I squoze it 

down

anyway.  Glad it was snug as I did get lifted once out of the seat.



It was a combo joyride and test of the new oil cooler.  Being only 60F

it wasn't too necessary but it didn't leak.  Little suzuki ran smooth

and cheap.  Felt good.

-BB  do not archive

On 29, Apr 2006, at 5:42 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



  | Might better design a whole new plane for the O-200.

 | -BB do not archive

 Bob B/Gang:



 Heard something similar not too long ago.  The aircraft should be

 designed around the engine.



 Maybe that is what Homer Kolb did, rather than design the airplane,

 then go out and try to find a power plant to make it

 go.................



 john h

 mkIII

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Ok Lar



Try this one on. I have a 600lb. MKIIIc and some of this weight is not due 

to the VW but anyway it is 600lbs. I weigh 220lbs. I add 60lbs. of fuel and 

now I'm having to be very careful how much passenger weight I can add. I 

beefed up my wings and have jury struts so I have raised my max gross weight 

to 1050lbs. but that only gives me 170lbs. for passenger weight.



If you were to put a 0-200 on the same airplane and the engine weighed 80lbs 

more you would have only have 90lbs available for passengers. If you wanted 

to stay at the factory recommended max weight you would truly have a single 

passenger airplane. And that's not taking into account any CG issues.



See we can have fun even if were not talking about Vamoose.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc



---

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Yah, OK, that would make a difference, wouldn't it ??  Even tho' we don't 

PLan on those sudden stops, it's best to keep the possibility in mind. 

Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Kolb/Harley/0-200

Yah, thinking useta be fun.......lately it's starting to hurt, then I lose 

track.  Hope it's not a trend.                    Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Kolb/Harley/0-200

 	  Richard Pike wrote: 	
		  

I think what you are missing is - It ain't the flying that causes problems, it's the unplanned sudden stops. 	




Richard,



I think that you have this right. Even a hard landing could possibly bend the cage with a heavy enough engine. Same for Firestars. More weight up high could increase the chance turning up-side-down. Mark III's don't seem to have that problem, though.

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

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