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jblake207(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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Hey guys, I'm looking for the speeds associated with the below acro maneuvers for a stock 285HP CJ. Would prefer KPH, but I'll take anything:
Loops<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Aileron rolls
Barrel rolls
Snap rolls
Hammerheads
Any other maneuver speeds you may have.
Thanks,
JB
[quote][b]
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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Set up at 2250 RPM and 75 MM manifold pressure, entry speed for a loop is 165 kts. with a 3-4 g pull. For aileron rolls, it's 135 kts pitching up 20 degrees before rolling. Don't know about hammerheads although I would imagine 165 kts would be appropriate. Snap rolls are not recommended. ..Blitz
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:45 PM, <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hey guys, I'm looking for the speeds associated with the below acro maneuvers for a stock 285HP CJ. Would prefer KPH, but I'll take anything:
Loops
Aileron rolls
Barrel rolls
Snap rolls
Hammerheads
Any other maneuver speeds you may have.
Thanks,
JB
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
[quote][b]
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jlpartington(at)att.net
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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Those speeds mentioned will surely give you more than enough smash to do both those maneuvers comfortably. Once you are comfortable with your plane the speeds can come down. You can loop the CJ no problem at 250 clicks. I like to use 280 and 3.5 to 4 g's. The hammerhead entry is fine at 280 clicks but sometimes I like more speed to give me a few more seconds trying to figure out if I'm purely vertical. The hardest part of a good hammerhead is the speed to kick the rudder and push fwd and left stick. (Don't do a hammerhead to the left unless you are comfortable spinning the CJ or tail sliding). I've occasionally done my patented hammerspin in either direction. It's not a pretty sight. Also, I've found the CJ (at least mine) has great pitch authority at very slow speeds. Try pointing it straight up and as airspeed hits 100 clicks pull straight back, it'll swap ends nicely. Barrel rolls I use 280 clicks and a rolling 1- 1.5 G pull and hit 45 nose up 45 degrees off heading continuing rolling to 90 degrees off heading with the nose inverted on the horizon then 45 back at 45 nose low hitting the horizon again as I level the wings back on the original heading. (Navy method). Immelmans and 1/2 cuban 8s are the same speed as the loop. For an immelman I prefer to be a little faster because the plane is so god awfull mushy in the roll at the top.
I suggest not much more than 11L of oil if you are going to beat up the overhead stuff (especially hammerheads) or you'll have a lot of cleaning to do
A four point roll (never pretty in the CJ? needs closer to loop speed and more nose attitude than 20 degrees on the initial pull up
~Wiz
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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Not a good idea to do whip stalls/ tail slides. The CJ's tail really isn't built for it. Be careful with Hammerheads. The CJ does not like to perform them very well. To the right only and you want to lead early with rudder before she stops flying. You sort of fly around the corner.
Be careful with spins. The other day I was up with full tanks (I have the big tanks 59 gals), a good 200 lb GIB with chute. During spin entry, I left the power on. She was spinning nicely, after 2 turns, when I released the back pressure - the stick stayed in my stomach and she continued to spin. After about a 3/4 turn I pushed the stick forward, noting it required about a 2 or 3 lbs of force. With the stick neutral and opposite rudder, she recovered nicely. This was the first time I've ever encounter a flat spin in a CJ.
Checking with a guy who did spin test for the FAA and the Aero Shell guys, it seem you'll get yourself into a flat spin by leaving the power on during the spin. More so if the C/G is well aft. I had done my little routine- which I normally do at a set power setting. I had added the spin at the very end and forgot to reduce the throttle.
I normally enter my barrel rolls at 135 to 145 kts. Four point rolls about 150 kts, starting with nose up about 20 degrees. It seem to prefer doing them to the right. I don't normally do snap rolls, but I slow the airplane down to below 80 kts before executing.
Always do a good preflight inspection before and after the sortie. Make doubly sure things aren't running lose in side. You really never have to pull more than 4 Gs to do any maneuver. And it's a very good idea, to have someone with you on that first flight, who's done acro in a CJ before, particularly if you're a FNG. 
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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Pappy,
Good clarification on the tail slides. I wasn't advocating that it should /could be done. I would NOT do one and would avoid them at all costs with that skinny long aft fuselage.
I disagree with the 4 point roll and 20 degrees nose up. I find order to hold it at each point, defining the maneuver, the nose will be buried by the time you get wings level. Then again I don't like to stomp on the top rudder or push when I'm inverted. The dihedral wing is just punishing.
I agree about leading with the rudder before A/S decays for the hammerhead and I find the CJ likes them just fine. It's only when you are off the vertical that it gets sloppy. Gotta learn to be patient as the turn starts slow and accelerates. If you don't feed in aileron and a little fwd stick it wants to go over on it's back.
Interesting about the spin. I would say we all have some pretty random
CG's with all our Mods not to mention the removal of all the original gear and it's up to each individual to get a proper weight and balance before launching into any acro. In any case, gutsy move spinning in that configuration.
Absolutely, no loose gear and a good FOD check is in order.
I've got many hours and more than enough in fighters and I spent more than a few flights with an experienced CJ guy in the back before I felt comfy.
BTW, what the hell is a whip stall?
K
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keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Acro Speeds for the CJ |
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a hah, googled whip stall. I've done many but NOT in the CJ.
~K
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