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Kitfox = Fun factor

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: Kitfox = Fun factor

Are you getting yours ?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed1VRxzH0iU



Kitfox fun on Skis Super STOL short take off 



SUBSCRIBE TO KITFOXFLYER on youtube

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_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor

Just wondering on the ski design... why did you go with just cross bars like a ladder instead of diagonals?  you hit a good ice ridge or hard snow machine track in deep snow and they will fold quicker than  you can say oh Sh%t.  There is a very valid reason that tubular structures use diagonals and not hard right angles.  Not saying your skis don't work, but if you are trying to sell them, I would get the engineering done right before someone buys a plane ticket to come insert a folded ski in a place you don't want it...



You may consider going bigger for areas that get alot of snow.  I landed up in the mountains Wednesday in an area that had gotten almost 4' of fresh powder overnight.  It was dicey getting out with my floats on, and I know damn good and well if I would have had my skis on I would still be trying to pack down a runway with snowshoes.. and my skis are 12" X 59".  Shorter ski's may be OK for areas that don't get much snow, but alot of people would benefit from a larger ski.



What do the ski's weigh (mains and tail)?

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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject: Kitfox = Fun factor

BINGO! I've been biting my tongue wondering when someone would  

comment on the lack of a diagonal brace...that is if you're talking  

about the ones that I'm thinking about. : )



I built a design without a forward diagonal brace, and when I clipped  

a snowbank and the tips of the skis hit, they looked like fairy  

slippers. I straightened the bends, added a forward/diagonal brace,  

and flew for several hours more before retiring them in lieu of a  

heavier tube, and better design.



It's all about the design, not the thickness and size of the tube.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Jan 22, 2010, at 3:36 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Just wondering on the ski design... why did you go with just cross  

 bars like a ladder instead of diagonals?  you hit a good ice ridge  

 or hard snow machine track in deep snow and they will fold quicker  

 than  you can say oh Sh%t.  There is a very valid reason that  

 tubular structures use diagonals and not hard right angles.  Not  

 saying your skis don't work, but if you are trying to sell them, I  

 would get the engineering done right before someone buys a plane  

 ticket to come insert a folded ski in a place you don't want it...



 You may consider going bigger for areas that get alot of snow.  I  

 landed up in the mountains Wednesday in an area that had gotten  

 almost 4' of fresh powder overnight.  It was dicey getting out with  

 my floats on, and I know damn good and well if I would have had my  

 skis on I would still be trying to pack down a runway with  

 snowshoes.. and my skis are 12" X 59".  Shorter ski's may be OK for  

 areas that don't get much snow, but alot of people would benefit  

 from a larger ski.



 What do the ski's weigh (mains and tail)?



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 (100 hrs and counting on the rebuild)

 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 82952#282952

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor

I spent a couple days biting my tongue... but as hard as Dave is pushing these, I just had to toss in my .02  



yeppers, I am certain we are talking about the same thing... look at crane booms, oh... and even airplane fuses LOL.. hmm. Nascar frames, dragster frames.. I am thinking you get the idea where I am going with this.  No engineer in his right mind would come up with this (Look at the original Avid ski design).  It is all about triangles to make tubing strong, not squares.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: Kitfox = Fun factor

Lynn, since you don't want to get into manufacturing but have a great design, why don't you and Dave get together and give the rest of us some decent skis at a fair price? I'm just saying . . . 

 

Then again, I wouldn't want to deal with that a--hole either.

 

Marco

--- On Fri, 1/22/10, akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

From: akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 6:26 PM




I spent a couple days biting my tongue... but as hard as Dave is pushing these, I just had to toss in my .02  



yeppers, I am certain we are talking about the same thing... look at crane booms, oh... and even airplane fuses LOL.. hmm. Nascar frames, dragster frames.. I am thinking you get the idea where I am going with this.  No engineer in his right mind would come up with this (Look at the original Avid ski design).  It is all about triangles to make tubing strong, not squares

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: Kitfox = Fun factor

Another BINGO, Marco....: )

As to "my design"....I'm just pretty skilled at looking at pictures  

and copying same in tube and plastic....for my eyes only, I'm afraid.  

That way I don't get those visits from lawy....oops.....



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 840.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~159 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Jan 22, 2010, at 6:51 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, since you don't want to get into manufacturing but have a  

 great design, why don't you and Dave get together and give the rest  

 of us some decent skis at a fair price? I'm just saying . . . 



 Then again, I wouldn't want to deal with that a--hole either.



 Marco

 --- On Fri, 1/22/10, akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 From: akflyer <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 Subject: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 6:26 PM



 



 I spent a couple days biting my tongue... but as hard as Dave is  

 pushing these, I just had to toss in my .02



 yeppers, I am certain we are talking about the same thing... look  

 at crane booms, oh... and even airplane fuses LOL.. hmm. Nascar  

 frames, dragster frames.. I am thinking you get the idea where I am  

 going with this.  No engineer in his right mind would come up with  

 this (Look at the original Avid ski design).  It is all about  

 triangles to make tubing strong, not squares.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 (100 hrs and counting on the rebuild)

 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 82981#282981



 p;  --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfbsp;         A  

 href="http://forums.matronics.com/" rel=nofollow  

 target=_blank>http========================



 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor

Guys,

Good points on ski construction. I pondered about an extra brace from axle to the tip but I wanted flex there. 



On the pedestal itself there are 5 tubes , 4 of which are diagonally placed. These will give excellent side load strength. 



Just ahead of the 2 front diagonals is where I want it to flex and or bend.  When you take the arm and moment and extend it from  a rigid structure to the axle and existing lading gear then something will fail or the longeron might bend.  



As far as the ladder design bending diamond shape -- I doubt it.  The tubing .75 x 049 wall and I normalized all the joints so that cracking of crystallized welds/tubes would be put to a minimum.  



I have done some good drop in stalls form 20 feet landing on frozen sled tracks and hitting over 4 g's on the g meter so far and no troubles. 



Just remember some guys can wipe out a gear with little wheels on them,  try adding a 2 foot arm out away from the axle and see what stress is added.  



Same goes for the new bush gears  , I would be you see the 1/4"  bolts bend if they are not careful . After that the longerons and cross member go next.

More great videos up --  bout time some of you put your cameras where you mouth is  eh?    Can't we all get along  LOL?  



http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed1VRxzH0iU  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rlAsOBEyeE

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox = Fun factor

I am running out of time before this next deployment but if I can get the gearbox put back on soon I will get some video of some of my STOL flights.  A small farm in front of my buddies house has been cleared so I am gonna try to pull up right in his front yard.

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_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

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