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Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

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Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Hi Guys. I'm worried about the proximity of my exhaust to Coolant tubing

and cowl. Has anyone used something to hold the heat in. A wrap or whatever........Thanks.....Geoff

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:42 am Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Just my personal opinion, but I'd put firesleeve on the coolant line rather than wrap the exhaust. An exhaust wrap will hold moisture on the pipes and cause them to corrode. Even if it doesn't destroy it, you still run the risk of an exhaust leak that could let carbon monoxide into the cockpit. For what it's worth.

Rick Girard



On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net (stol10(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net (stol10(at)comcast.net)>

  

 Hi Guys. I'm worried about the proximity of my exhaust to Coolant tubing

 and cowl. Has anyone used something to hold the heat in. A wrap or whatever.......Thanks.....Geoff

 

 

 

 

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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:43 am Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Geoff,



I used Thermoflex tubing over the coolant and oil lines that were close to the exhaust.



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/thermoflex.php



Seems to work quite well.



Bob Borger

Europa XS Monowheel, Intercooled Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

 

On Tuesday, January 19, 2010, at 12:55PM, "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Guys. I'm worried about the proximity of my exhaust to Coolant tubing

and cowl. Has anyone used something to hold the heat in. A wrap or whatever........Thanks.....Geoff

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

You can use firesleeve over any line to help reduce radiated or convected heat. All your oil lines and fuel lines should have this anyway. You can use header wrap without any issues on the Rotax stainless steel exhaust. Carbonization that some talk about is an issue with standard steel with more iron content, but not the same for stainless pipes with more nickel and chrome. Many aircraft have header wrap. I have it on my CT and have had for 2.5 years and 400 hrs. I use it as do many CT'ers for the radiated heat on our wires and lines. If you ever get a break (from vibration) then the wrap is fragile enough and it will shred where ever the break is. You won't have to guess where a break occurs. I have seen many Rotax exhaust breaks and most all are from vibration or too much side stress and vibration when it was installed. None of these had any wrap. You usually don't get a pin hole type leak with stainless and a side load. It snaps all the way across and you can hear it in the cabin with a throatier exhaust sound. Header wrap on an exhaust pipe should not affect any carbon monoxide in a cabin. Two different animals. Hot exhaust wrap is actually put on damp. It won't hold the moister and if you were to soak it down it burns off in a minute after the engine is running. You can buy 50' rolls of header wrap it places like Checker Auto, Auto Zone or PepBoys. It's about $45-$50. You will have some left over if you wrap all four pipes. Use a hose clamp on each end. If you have EGT probes absolutely do not let the wrap cover them or place the probe over the wrap. It will effect your EGT's and make them higher and fluctuate by 50-100F. Only over wrap the edges by 1/4"-3/8", you do not want to over wrap each wind by 1/2 or it will retain too much heat.. Wrap all the way down and actually under the exhaust springs around the exhaust muffler knuckle. Then put a hose clamp there. This is also a good way to cut any blow by exhaust gases down at the knuckle if you have any.  Wrap up to them and then start on the other side of the probe.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Just curious, Roger, how do you get into the wrap to put anti-sieze in the slip joints?



Rick Girard



On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 You can use firesleeve over any line to help reduce radiated or convected heat. All your oil lines and fuel lines should have this anyway. You can use header wrap without any issues on the Rotax stainless steel exhaust. Carbonization that some talk about is an issue with standard steel with more iron content, but not the same for stainless pipes with more nickel and chrome. Many aircraft have header wrap. I have it on my CT and have had for 2.5 years and 400 hrs. I use it as do many CT'ers for the radiated heat on our wires and lines. If you ever get a break (from vibration) then the wrap is fragile enough and it will shred where ever the break is. You won't have to guess where a break occurs. I have seen many Rotax exhaust breaks and most all are from vibration or too much side stress and vibration when it was installed. None of these had any wrap. You usually don't get a pin hole type leak with stainless and a side load. It snaps all the way across and you can hear it in t!

   he cabin with a throatier exhaust sound. Header wrap on an exhaust pipe should not affect any carbon monoxide in a cabin. Two different animals. Hot exhaust wrap is actually put on damp. It won't hold the moister and if you were to soak it down it burns off in a minute after the engine is running. You can buy 50' rolls of header wrap it places like Checker Auto, Auto Zone or PepBoys. It's about $45-$50. You will have some left over if you wrap all four pipes. Use a hose clamp on each end. If you have EGT probes absolutely do not let the wrap cover them or place the probe over the wrap. It will effect your EGT's and make them higher and fluctuate by 50-100F. Only over wrap the edges by 1/4"-3/8", you do not want to over wrap each wind by 1/2 or it will retain too much heat.. Wrap all the way down and actually under the exhaust springs around the exhaust muffler knuckle. Then put a hose clamp there. This is also a good way to cut any blow by exhaust gases down at the knuckle !

   if you have any.  Wrap up to them and then start on the other !

  side of

 

 the probe.

 

 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.

 Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

 Rotax Repair Center

 520-574-1080

 

 

 

 

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Exhaust wraps look great on motorcycles but they can cause a great increase of internal temperatures.    

   

Noel  

     

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

 Sent: January 19, 2010 4:10 PM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?  

  

   

Just my personal opinion, but I'd put firesleeve on the coolant line rather than wrap the exhaust. An exhaust wrap will hold moisture on the pipes and cause them to corrode. Even if it doesn't destroy it, you still run the risk of an exhaust leak that could let carbon monoxide into the cockpit.    

For what it's worth.  

    

   

    

Rick Girard    

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Geoff Heap <stol10(at)comcast.net (stol10(at)comcast.net)> wrote:  

--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10(at)comcast.net (stol10(at)comcast.net)>

 

 Hi Guys. I'm worried about the proximity of my exhaust to Coolant tubing

 and cowl. Has anyone used something to hold the heat in. A wrap or whatever........Thanks.....Geoff

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=282280#282280

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

   

  

   

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

On our exhaust we are only covering about 15" of exhaust so it does not effect EGT's at all. You wrap from the exhaust port at the cylinder and only down over the knuckle by the springs. I have done many and have never had any issues or complaints and I keep doing more as people keep requesting it. I have one to do Jan. 30 from a guy out of San Antonio. I'll pull the engine and put on a firewall blanket, Matco brakes, pull the wings for an inspection and an engine inspection. 

Just don't cover or have the wrap around the EGT probes. To apply anti-seize you loosen the clamp at the knuckle slide the wrap up some and drop or pull away the muffler an few inches. Then pull the wrap back the 1"-1.5" you moved it and re-clamp. If you land and pull off your cowling would you grab your exhaust pipe? Not with any common since no one would, but with the wrap I can put my hand on it. They Mfg. of the wrap claims it reduces radiated heat by 70%. I don't know how accurate that number is, but what a difference.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

so what is this wrap called? where canI get it?

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Where do you get the wrap?  



I was thinking like the bikes where the exhaust is wrapped from stem to

stern.  The short bit you describe wouldn't cause an internal overheat.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

The header warp is called just that. It comes in 1" and 2" wide rolls and 50' long. Just use the 2". It comes in a light tan color or a darker black color. Either will work, but I would recommend the black as it has a nice protective coating already applied. Some want you to paint the light tan for a coating, but it is not that big a deal for us.

Racers or high performance guys use this to eek out more HP. They wrap from the exhaust port all the way down the entire exhaust. This keeps the exhaust gases hot and makes them exit the exhaust pipe faster. If your pipes are not wrapped like our passenger cars then the exhaust gas cools and slows down in the pipe which robs a small amount of HP. Not enough for us to worry about. The high performance guys want it all.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust wrap/insulation ?

Thanks to all that replied. I like Roger's method with the wrap.

It suits my purpose well because I only want to use it to protect lines that pass close by. Mainly coolant. I would wrap only those area's of the exhaust. Many thanks. I love this list. I started building from plans in 1991. I still have a handwritten letter that I wrote to Chris Heinz about a small mod to my Slat spars. He marked it up with a few extra rivets and wrote that it would be fine. He replied quite quickly. I think thats about the time that I had my 286 Arche Rival......Geoff

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