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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:35 pm Post subject: Battery replacement philosophies . . . |
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At 11:43 AM 1/25/2010, you wrote:
kevann(at)gotsky.com wrote:
> I have a two alt one batt(pc680) syatem in my 914 powered Europa. I change
> out the battery every other year. I modified our Subaru Legacy to take the
> 680. The two year old 680 cranks the Subaru fine for two years till I get a
> new one for the plane.
>
> Kevin
> ---
Thanks Kevin.
I've often thought that with the numbers of people that subscribe to
the List and who monitor this forum, there's got to be a market for 1
or 2 year old AGM batteries like the Odysseys for those who opt for a
two battery system like Z19 or 14 and are in their first year.
It always pained me thinking of tossing a perfectly good $100+ battery.
You don't HAVE to TOSS it if you have a way to TEST it.
The yearly rotation thing was suggested for folks who
wanted to exploit the low cost batteries while NOT piling
on costs of ownership for having to test them. I.e., the
$time$ for testing was more than the cost of a replacement
battery.
The options cited were to add things like an SD-8 and
plan an endurance bus that didn't take more than 8A.
Then run the battery 'til it craps. Or, invest in some
type of battery capacity checker and change out the
battery when it's contained energy drops below your
design goals for e-bus support.
If you're invested in $high$ batteries, then yes . . .
yearly change-out policy seems arbitrary and fails
to offer the best return on investment.
Bob . . .
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: Battery replacement philosophies . . . |
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I've been rotating my 2 or 3 year old Odysseys from the plane to the ham shack, lawn tractor and house generator for awhile now, where they continue to give good service. In fact, I've yet to discard an Odyssey in the last decade, as they all still work well enough in their respective roles.
Bill B.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 11:43 AM 1/25/2010, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net (jonlaury(at)impulse.net)>
kevann(at)gotsky.com wrote:
> I have a two alt one batt(pc680) syatem in my 914 powered Europa. I change
> out the battery every other year. I modified our Subaru Legacy to take the
> 680. The two year old 680 cranks the Subaru fine for two years till I get a
> new one for the plane.
>
> Kevin
> ---
Thanks Kevin.
I've often thought that with the numbers of people that subscribe to the List and who monitor this forum, there's got to be a market for 1 or 2 year old AGM batteries like the Odysseys for those who opt for a two battery system like Z19 or 14 and are in their first year.
It always pained me thinking of tossing a perfectly good $100+ battery.
You don't HAVE to TOSS it if you have a way to TEST it.
The yearly rotation thing was suggested for folks who
wanted to exploit the low cost batteries while NOT piling
on costs of ownership for having to test them. I.e., the
$time$ for testing was more than the cost of a replacement
battery.
The options cited were to add things like an SD-8 and
plan an endurance bus that didn't take more than 8A.
Then run the battery 'til it craps. Or, invest in some
type of battery capacity checker and change out the
battery when it's contained energy drops below your
design goals for e-bus support.
If you're invested in $high$ batteries, then yes . . .
yearly change-out policy seems arbitrary and fails
to offer the best return on investment.
Bob . . .
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[b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: Battery replacement philosophies . . . |
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At 07:27 AM 1/26/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | I've been rotating my 2 or 3 year old Odysseys from the plane to the
ham shack, lawn tractor and house generator for awhile now, where
they continue to give good service. In fact, I've yet to discard an
Odyssey in the last decade, as they all still work well enough in
their respective roles.
|
ABSOLUTELY! I have SVLA instrumentation batteries that have
been kept on maintainers when not in service. Some are pushing
6-7 years old and they still deliver a hefty percentage of
like-new energy.
There's no reason that a well cared for battery in an
airplane cannot offer a very long service life. But the
phrase "well cared for" has a cost of ownership value.
You need to have a preventative maintenance plan that
calls for test equipment and $time$ along with an
attitude that encourages due-diligence on the part of
the owner-operator (YOU) to implement the plan.
In the air-transport and other commercial applications
for airplanes, there are usually folks on staff who are
paid for their due diligence and are outfitted with
the necessary tools. Compare this situation with the
C-172 that sits unattended for long periods of time,
perhaps a long way from an AC mains connection, owned
and operated by a guy who probably understands less
about his airplane than he does about his car or
bass boat.
The yearly change-out idea grew from the notion that
readers here on the List know far more about
their machines. It was further considered that many
would be attracted to the idea of treating batteries
like razor blades. Buy the least expensive and change
out often. This ASSURES in-flight performance while
MINIMIZING taxation of time, talent and resources
to keep battery-only operations confidence levels
high.
Now, if one is enamored of the notion for fitting
premium battery(ies) to their airplane, then indeed
the idea of yearly swap-out is problematic in
for achieving the lowest cost of ownership. So
your choices now are very clear.
(1) Shoulder the costs of NOT KNOWING just how good
or bad your battery might be in terms of meeting
battery-only design goals . . . and swap 'em out.
OR . . .
(2) Acquire tools and adopt a program that replaces
the convenience of yearly swap-out with a performance
assurance plan.
The decision is one that only you can make. I have
the tools and talent necessary to make my airplane
batteries well cared for. But if it were my airplane,
I'd opt for the yearly swap-out of inexpensive
batteries . . . but that's because I have better things
to do with my time than pray over batteries.
Bob . . .
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jonlaury
Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: Battery replacement philosophies . . . |
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Bob,
You said:
...your choices now are very clear.
(1) Shoulder the costs of NOT KNOWING just how good
or bad your battery might be in terms of meeting
battery-only design goals . . . and swap 'em out.
OR . . .
(2) Acquire tools and adopt a program that replaces
the convenience of yearly swap-out with a performance
assurance plan.
...... But if it were my airplane,
I'd opt for the yearly swap-out of inexpensive
batteries . . . but that's because I have better things
to do with my time than pray over batteries.
Bob . . .
I have no desire to "pray" over batteries or buy expensive ones. At your suggestion, that an Odyssey PC680 would happily crank my 350 in 6 cyl Franklin, I opted for that single battery over a pair of PC310's of dubious ability to crank the Franklin.
I would much rather buy a less expensive battery and replace it bi-annually if it would crank the engine. I've looked at a few other 17AH batts. The price ranges from $30 to Odyssey prices and some don't list crank amps or reserve capacity. PowerSonic has the most information, besides Odyssey, and is about 1/2 the price ($55) for an 18AH (PS-12180 NB) that seems like it would do the job. But any suggestions for brands and models that you or anybody else has would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
John
[quote][b]
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jbr79r(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Battery replacement philosophies . . . |
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I use Panasonic 18AH batteries. 2 batteries in my Glasair lll with IO540 hi compression pistons. I am wired with Bob's 2 batteries, 2 alternators system and I never have problems starting. ( batteries x tie to start) I think I get them from DigiKey for under $50 ea. I rotate them at annual. I have replaced both at the same time,but Bob 's suggestion was replace 1 at each annual. Your call
James Robinson
Glasair lll N79R
Spanish Fork UT U77
________________________________
From: John Burnaby <jonlaury(at)impulse.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, January 27, 2010 2:35:32 PM
Subject: Re: Battery replacement philosophies . . .
Bob,
You said:
...your choices now are very
clear.
(1) Shoulder the costs of
NOT KNOWING just how good
or
bad your battery might be in terms of
meeting
battery-only design
goals . . . and swap 'em
out.
OR . .
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