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Starter and contactor wiring

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TJPackard

Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 2

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Bob and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some discussion about wiring a Skytec starter per Vans recommendations. I believe Bob recommended eliminating the jumper wire between the Starter B+ and 'S' terminal and connecting the 'S' terminal to the starter contactor "I" terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter and the instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24 volts and leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper effect 12 volt operation?  Also, I would like to add a 'starter engaged' warning light per Bobs' recommendation in the "connection" by wiring  the "I" terminal of the starter contactor thru a 5amp fuse to the warning light. Any problem with doing  both wiring  alterations?

Thanks,

Tom Packard

  



            [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

At 04:56 PM 2/3/2010, you wrote:

Bob and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some discussion about wiring a 

Skytec starter per Vans recommendations. I believe Bob recommended 

eliminating the jumper wire between the Starter B+ and 'S' terminal 

and connecting the 'S' terminal to the starter contactor "I" 

terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter and the 

instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24 volts 

and leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper effect 

12 volt operation?  Also, I would like to add a 'starter engaged' 

warning light per Bobs' recommendation in the "connection" by 

wiring  the "I" terminal of the starter contactor thru a 5amp fuse to 

the warning light. Any problem with doing  both wiring alterations?



    You got me. Never heard of the 12/24 volt jumper option.

    If the starter will function when supplied with 24v

    and the "S" terminal left open, then there's something

    going on inside that I'm not aware of. Suggest you

    follow instructions and leave the jumper installed.



    Since these instructions appear to accommodate TC

    aircraft, they'll no doubt have external contactors

    as part of the original design. This means that

    for a 14v airplane, it wires just like the B&C

    configuration (jumper installed) depicted on the

    Z-figures. Of course, you can always add the starter

    engaged light on the "I" terminal of your external

    contactor.



    Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Starter and contactor wiring

Tom Packard,

See: http://www.skytecair.com/Jumper101.htm

Quoting from Sky Tec's website:

" 	  Quote: 	
		  Sky-Tec repurposed the S-Terminal functionality on NL model starters to serve as a means of switching the starter between 12V and 24V operation.  Because of this, ALL NL STARTER INSTALLATIONS MUST BE WIRED ACCORDING TO THE CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT WIRING DIAGRAM BELOW - NO EXCEPTIONS!  	


See wiring diagram: http://www.skytecair.com/images/NL%2012V%20Installation%20Wiring_1100.jpg

Evidently the jumper changes the internal wiring to the motor.  If operated on 12 volts without the jumper, something bad might happen.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

jc-matronics_aeroelectric
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

This is great timing. I am confused, because Van's default wiring plans 

have you remove the jumper on the starter and wire this B11 wire 

separately from starter contactor to starter, which seems the same thing 

as leaving the jumper in place.



picture link here to Van's wiring schematic: 

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fF4SlbjCoxWWDl_8bqtbHg?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7088GZlYCc2AE&feat=directlink



Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks!

Jae



user9253 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Tom Packard,

 See: http://www.skytecair.com/Jumper101.htm

 Quoting from Sky Tec's website:

 "

   

> Sky-Tec repurposed the S-Terminal functionality on NL model starters to serve as a means of switching the starter between 12V and 24V operation.  Because of this, ALL NL STARTER INSTALLATIONS MUST BE WIRED ACCORDING TO THE CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT WIRING DIAGRAM BELOW - NO EXCEPTIONS!  

>     



 See wiring diagram: http://www.skytecair.com/images/NL%2012V%20Installation%20Wiring_1100.jpg

 Evidently the jumper changes the internal wiring to the motor.  If operated on 12 volts without the jumper, something bad might happen.

 Joe



 --------

 Joe Gores





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 84834#284834

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:06 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Tom,

 For what it's worth, I'll tell you my story.

 I have an IO-390 with Skytec LS starter.  The starter comes with a  jumper wire installed which I understand jumps power over to engage the starter  solenoid.  The Skytec folks have a diagram on their web site showing how  Van's recommends wiring the starter and said the Van's method is bogus (my  words) and it would be foolish to wire it that way.  I took their advice  and did not wire it like Van's.  I should have wired like Van's.

  

 Not long ago, during start, I had a run-on starter and had to disconnect  the battery to disengage the starter.  Long story short, I made a wiring  error that, in the event of a stuck contactor or stuck starter solenoid, I could  not remove power from the starter.  I corrected that error and in the  process I asked Bob's opinion and he recommended removing the jumper wire and  wiring like Van's.

  

 So, now, the starter solenoid (S term) is powered from the I  terminal on the contactor, a starter engaged light is powered from the  contactor I terminal and I can now remove all power from the contactor in  the event of a starter run-on.  I did not put a fuse in the starter  light wire from the contactor I terminal to the starter engaged light  because it is only powered for a few seconds and releasing the starter button  removes power from the S terminal and the wire.  My setup is working  fine now and I can check after each start to insure the starter engaged light is  not on.

  

 Regards,

 Stan Sutterfield

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob    and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some discussion    about wiring a Skytec starter

per Vans recommendations. I believe Bob    recommended eliminating the jumper wire

between the Starter B+ and 'S'    terminal and connecting the 'S' terminal to the

starter contactor "I"    terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter and

the    instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24 volts    and

leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper effect    12 volt operation?

Also, I would like to add a 'starter engaged' warning    light per Bobs'

recommendation in the "connection" by wiring  the "I"    terminal of the starter

contactor thru a 5amp fuse to the warning light.    Any problem with doing  both

wiring alterations?

Thanks,

Tom    Packard 	


 

  

  [quote][b]

jessejenks(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

I'm curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you anything more than that you are pressing the starter button with your thumb C which you should hopefully know already? In other words would the light actually inform you of a starter stuck on after the engine is running?

I had been considering weather a light on the panel is worth wile or not.

Thanks.

Jesse

PS I will be wiring like Vans C without the jumper.

From: Speedy11(at)aol.com

Date: Thu C 4 Feb 2010 15:01:36 -0500

Subject: Re: Starter and contactor wiring

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com



        Tom C

 For what it's worth C I'll tell you my story.

 I have an IO-390 with Skytec LS starter.  The starter comes with a  jumper wire installed which I understand jumps power over to engage the starter  solenoid.  The Skytec folks have a diagram on their web site showing how  Van's recommends wiring the starter and said the Van's method is bogus (my  words) and it would be foolish to wire it that way.  I took their advice  and did not wire it like Van's.  I should have wired like Van's.

  

 Not long ago C during start C I had a run-on starter and had to disconnect  the battery to disengage the starter.  Long story short C I made a wiring  error that C in the event of a stuck contactor or stuck starter solenoid C I could  not remove power from the starter.  I corrected that error and in the  process I asked Bob's opinion and he recommended removing the jumper wire and  wiring like Van's.

  

 So C now C the starter solenoid (S term) is powered from the I  terminal on the contactor C a starter engaged light is powered from the  contactor I terminal and I can now remove all power from the contactor in  the event of a starter run-on.  I did not put a fuse in the starter  light wire from the contactor I terminal to the starter engaged light  because it is only powered for a few seconds and releasing the starter button  removes power from the S terminal and the wire.  My setup is working  fine now and I can check after each start to insure the starter engaged light is  not on.

  

 Regards C

 Stan Sutterfield

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob    and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some discussion    about wiring a Skytec starter

per Vans recommendations. I believe Bob    recommended eliminating the jumper wire

between the Starter B+ and 'S'    terminal and connecting the 'S' terminal to the

starter contactor "I"    terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter and

the    instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24 volts    and

leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper effect    12 volt operation?

Also C I would like to add a 'starter engaged' warning    light per Bobs'

recommendation in the "connection" by wiring  the "I"    terminal of the starter

contactor thru a 5amp fuse to the warning light.    Any problem with doing  both

wiring alterations?

Thanks C

Tom    Packard 	


 

  

   	  Quote: 	
		  <===================== 	
 		 	   		  Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAtarget='_new'>Sign up now.  [quote][b]

jessejenks(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Wouldn't it be better to wire the light to the inboard heavy stud on the starter? That way if the light was on after you took your thumb off the button C you would know there is power at the actual starter C not just at the solenoid.

From: jessejenks(at)hotmail.com

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Starter and contactor wiring

Date: Thu C 4 Feb 2010 13:53:07 -0800

     .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}    I'm curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you anything more than that you are pressing the starter button with your thumb C which you should hopefully know already? In other words would the light actually inform you of a starter stuck on after the engine is running?

I had been considering weather a light on the panel is worth wile or not.

Thanks.

Jesse

PS I will be wiring like Vans C without the jumper.

From: Speedy11(at)aol.com

Date: Thu C 4 Feb 2010 15:01:36 -0500

Subject: Re: Starter and contactor wiring

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

        Tom C

 For what it's worth C I'll tell you my story.

 I have an IO-390 with Skytec LS starter.  The starter comes with a  jumper wire installed which I understand jumps power over to engage the starter  solenoid.  The Skytec folks have a diagram on their web site showing how  Van's recommends wiring the starter and said the Van's method is bogus (my  words) and it would be foolish to wire it that way.  I took their advice  and did not wire it like Van's.  I should have wired like Van's.

 Not long ago C during start C I had a run-on starter and had to disconnect  the battery to disengage the starter.  Long story short C I made a wiring  error that C in the event of a stuck contactor or stuck starter solenoid C I could  not remove power from the starter.  I corrected that error and in the  process I asked Bob's opinion and he recommended removing the jumper wire and  wiring like Van's.

 So C now C the starter solenoid (S term) is powered from the I  terminal on the contactor C a starter engaged light is powered from the  contactor I terminal and I can now remove all power from the contactor in  the event of a starter run-on.  I did not put a fuse in the starter  light wire from the contactor I terminal to the starter engaged light  because it is only powered for a few seconds and releasing the starter button  removes power from the S terminal and the wire.  My setup is working  fine now and I can check after each start to insure the starter engaged light is  not on.

 Regards C

 Stan Sutterfield

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob    and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some discussion    about wiring a Skytec starter

per Vans recommendations. I believe Bob    recommended eliminating the jumper wire

between the Starter B+ and 'S'    terminal and connecting the 'S' terminal to the

starter contactor "I"    terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter and

the    instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24 volts    and

leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper effect    12 volt operation?

Also C I would like to add a 'starter engaged' warning    light per Bobs'

recommendation in the "connection" by wiring  the "I"    terminal of the starter

contactor thru a 5amp fuse to the warning light.    Any problem with doing  both

wiring alterations?

Thanks C

Tom    Packard 	

   	  Quote: 	
		  <===================== 	

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAtarget='_new'>Sign up now.   	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matro; http://forums.matronics.comgt; http://www.matronic==================== 	
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Good Afternoon Jesse,

  

 I wired my starter warning almost that way. I put it at the other end of  that fat wire right on the contactor. As long as that wire is hot, for whatever  reason, the light will be on. If your starter has an additional internal  contactor my version wouldn't work, but if the external contactor is the only  way for power to get to the starter it works fine. If the contactor sticks or  gets shorted to power in some other manner, the light is lit.

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

  In a message dated 2/4/2010 4:14:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,  jessejenks(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Wouldn't    it be better to wire the light to the inboard heavy stud on the starter? That    way if the light was on after you took your thumb off the button, you would    know there is power at the actual starter, not just at the solenoid.



      From: jessejenks(at)hotmail.com

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Starter    and contactor wiring

Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:53:07 -0800



    .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}    I'm curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you anything more    than that you are pressing the starter button with your thumb, which you    should hopefully know already? In other words would the light actually inform    you of a starter stuck on after the engine is running?

I had been    considering weather a light on the panel is worth wile or    not.

Thanks.

Jesse

PS I will be wiring like Vans, without the    jumper.

      From: Speedy11(at)aol.com

Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:01:36 -0500

Subject:    Re: Starter and contactor wiring

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com



      Tom,

   For what it's worth, I'll tell you my story.

   I have an IO-390 with Skytec LS starter.  The starter comes with a    jumper wire installed which I understand jumps power over to engage the    starter solenoid.  The Skytec folks have a diagram on their web site    showing how Van's recommends wiring the starter and said the Van's method is    bogus (my words) and it would be foolish to wire it that way.  I took    their advice and did not wire it like Van's.  I should have wired like    Van's.

    

   Not long ago, during start, I had a run-on starter and had to disconnect    the battery to disengage the starter.  Long story short, I made a wiring    error that, in the event of a stuck contactor or stuck starter solenoid, I    could not remove power from the starter.  I corrected that error and in    the process I asked Bob's opinion and he recommended removing the jumper wire    and wiring like Van's.

    

   So, now, the starter solenoid (S term) is powered from    the I terminal on the contactor, a starter engaged light is powered from    the contactor I terminal and I can now remove all power from the    contactor in the event of a starter run-on.  I did not put a fuse in the    starter light wire from the contactor I terminal to the starter    engaged light because it is only powered for a few seconds and releasing the    starter button removes power from the S terminal and the wire.  My    setup is working fine now and I can check after each start to insure the    starter engaged light is not on.

    

   Regards,

   Stan Sutterfield

    

    	  Quote: 	
		  Bob      and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some      discussion about wiring a Skytec starter

per Vans recommendations. I      believe Bob recommended eliminating the jumper wire

between the Starter      B+ and 'S' terminal and connecting the 'S' terminal to the

starter      contactor "I" terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter      and

the instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24      volts and

leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper      effect 12 volt operation?

Also, I would like to add a 'starter engaged'      warning light per Bobs'

recommendation in the "connection" by      wiring  the "I" terminal of the starter

contactor thru a 5amp fuse      to the warning light. Any problem with doing  both

wiring      alterations?

Thanks,

Tom Packard 	


   

    

 	  Quote: 	
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      Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAtarget='_new'>Sign up now.  	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics================================================ttp://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://f========================ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio======================================  	
	
[/b]

  [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

At 03:53 PM 2/4/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you 

anything more than that you are pressing the starter button with 

your thumb, which you should hopefully know already? In other words 

would the light actually inform you of a starter stuck on after the 

engine is running?


	


    The "I" terminal is an independent connection that

    parallels the connetion between the external contactor's

    fat-wire studs. So yes, if there's power on the "I"

    terminal, then that contactor is either (1) energized

    to crank the engine or (2) stuck in a closed condition

    after the starter button is released.



    Contactor sticking is a rare incident usually related

    to cranking with a soggy battery. But it DOES happen.



    Adding an indicator lamp to the "I" terminal annunicates

    the condition in a timely manner.



    Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

At 11:35 AM 2/4/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<jc-matronics_aeroelectric(at)jline.com>



This is great timing. I am confused, because Van's default wiring 

plans have you remove the jumper on the starter and wire this B11 

wire separately from starter contactor to starter, which seems the 

same thing as leaving the jumper in place.


	


   Correct . . .

        Bob . . .

jessejenks(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Thanks Bob and Old Bob C

I was confusing myself with going between the Vans diagram for wiring with a separate contactor and the jumper removed on the internal contactor/solenoid C and the Z-22 diagram (which is actually how I'm going to do it). With Z-22 it looks like you would wire the "starter engaged" light like I said; from the inboard (starter side) fat terminal on the starter because battery power is always present (with the master on) at the other fat terminal and if the internal contactor sticks closed that is the only way a light would show it. Am I right?

From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com

Date: Thu C 4 Feb 2010 17:20:57 -0500

Subject: Re: Re: Starter and contactor wiring

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

       Good Afternoon Jesse C

 I wired my starter warning almost that way. I put it at the other end of  that fat wire right on the contactor. As long as that wire is hot C for whatever  reason C the light will be on. If your starter has an additional internal  contactor my version wouldn't work C but if the external contactor is the only  way for power to get to the starter it works fine. If the contactor sticks or  gets shorted to power in some other manner C the light is lit.

 Happy Skies C

 Old Bob

  In a message dated 2/4/2010 4:14:34 P.M. Central Standard Time C  jessejenks(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Wouldn't    it be better to wire the light to the inboard heavy stud on the starter? That    way if the light was on after you took your thumb off the button C you would    know there is power at the actual starter C not just at the solenoid.

      From: jessejenks(at)hotmail.com

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Starter    and contactor wiring

Date: Thu C 4 Feb 2010 13:53:07 -0800

    .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}    I'm curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you anything more    than that you are pressing the starter button with your thumb C which you    should hopefully know already? In other words would the light actually inform    you of a starter stuck on after the engine is running?

I had been    considering weather a light on the panel is worth wile or    not.

Thanks.

Jesse

PS I will be wiring like Vans C without the    jumper.

      From: Speedy11(at)aol.com

Date: Thu C 4 Feb 2010 15:01:36 -0500

Subject:    Re: Starter and contactor wiring

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

      Tom C

   For what it's worth C I'll tell you my story.

   I have an IO-390 with Skytec LS starter.  The starter comes with a    jumper wire installed which I understand jumps power over to engage the    starter solenoid.  The Skytec folks have a diagram on their web site    showing how Van's recommends wiring the starter and said the Van's method is    bogus (my words) and it would be foolish to wire it that way.  I took    their advice and did not wire it like Van's.  I should have wired like    Van's.

   Not long ago C during start C I had a run-on starter and had to disconnect    the battery to disengage the starter.  Long story short C I made a wiring    error that C in the event of a stuck contactor or stuck starter solenoid C I    could not remove power from the starter.  I corrected that error and in    the process I asked Bob's opinion and he recommended removing the jumper wire    and wiring like Van's.

   So C now C the starter solenoid (S term) is powered from    the I terminal on the contactor C a starter engaged light is powered from    the contactor I terminal and I can now remove all power from the    contactor in the event of a starter run-on.  I did not put a fuse in the    starter light wire from the contactor I terminal to the starter    engaged light because it is only powered for a few seconds and releasing the    starter button removes power from the S terminal and the wire.  My    setup is working fine now and I can check after each start to insure the    starter engaged light is not on.

   Regards C

   Stan Sutterfield

    	  Quote: 	
		  Bob      and/or others with help..

A couple of months ago there was some      discussion about wiring a Skytec starter

per Vans recommendations. I      believe Bob recommended eliminating the jumper wire

between the Starter      B+ and 'S' terminal and connecting the 'S' terminal to the

starter      contactor "I" terminal.  I am installing a Skytec 149-NL starter      and

the instructions say to remove this jumper wire when wiring for 24      volts and

leave it in for 12 v operation. Does  removing the jumper      effect 12 volt operation?

Also C I would like to add a 'starter engaged'      warning light per Bobs'

recommendation in the "connection" by      wiring  the "I" terminal of the starter

contactor thru a 5amp fuse      to the warning light. Any problem with doing  both

wiring      alterations?

Thanks C

Tom Packard 	

 	  Quote: 	
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      Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAtarget='_new'>Sign up now.  	  Quote: 	
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Hi Jesse,

  

 Sounds good to me!

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

 Do Not Archive

  

  In a message dated 2/4/2010 10:58:20 P.M. Central Standard Time,  jessejenks(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks    Bob and Old Bob,

I was confusing myself with going between the Vans diagram    for wiring with a separate contactor and the jumper removed on the internal    contactor/solenoid, and the Z-22 diagram (which is actually how I'm going to    do it). With Z-22 it looks like you would wire the "starter engaged" light    like I said; from the inboard (starter side) fat terminal on the starter    because battery power is always present (with the master on) at the other fat    terminal and if the internal contactor sticks closed that is the only way a    light would show it. Am I right?



      From: BobsV35B(at)aol.com

Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:20:57 -0500

Subject: Re:    Re: Starter and contactor wiring

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com



   Good Afternoon Jesse,

    

   I wired my starter warning almost that way. I put it at the other end of    that fat wire right on the contactor. As long as that wire is hot, for    whatever reason, the light will be on. If your starter has an additional    internal contactor my version wouldn't work, but if the external contactor is    the only way for power to get to the starter it works fine. If the contactor    sticks or gets shorted to power in some other manner, the light is lit.

    

   Happy Skies,

    

   Old Bob

    

      In a message dated 2/4/2010 4:14:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,    jessejenks(at)hotmail.com writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  Wouldn't it be better to wire the light to the inboard heavy stud      on the starter? That way if the light was on after you took your thumb off      the button, you would know there is power at the actual starter, not just at      the solenoid.



          From: jessejenks(at)hotmail.com

To:      aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re:      Starter and contactor wiring

Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:53:07 -0800



      .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}      I'm curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you anything more      than that you are pressing the starter button with your thumb, which you      should hopefully know already? In other words would the light actually      inform you of a starter stuck on after the engine is running?

I had been      considering weather a light on the panel is worth wile or      not.

Thanks.

Jesse

PS I will be wiring like Vans, without the      jumper.

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Starter and contactor wiring

 	  Quote: 	
		  You got me. Never heard of the 12/24 volt jumper option.

If the starter will function when supplied with 24v

and the "S" terminal left open, then there's something

going on inside that I'm not aware of. Suggest you

follow instructions and leave the jumper installed. 	


Could there be something like this inside of the starter?

http://tinyurl.com/yallsk4

The manufacturer is pretty adamant about installing that jumper for 12 volts.  It seems to me that wiring according to Van's diagram would work too, as long as 12 volts gets applied to that starter jumper-terminal while cranking.

Joe

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_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

At 11:23 AM 2/5/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fran4sew(at)banyanol.com>

 > You got me. Never heard of the 12/24 volt jumper option.

 > If the starter will function when supplied with 24v

 > and the "S" terminal left open, then there's something

 > going on inside that I'm not aware of. Suggest you

 > follow instructions and leave the jumper installed.

 Could there be something like this inside of the starter?

  http://tinyurl.com/yallsk4

 The manufacturer is pretty adamant about installing that jumper for 12 volts. 	

   Interesting! It's not clear to me how the pair

   of starter windings are managed . . . the PM

   starters I'm familiar with have windings only on

   an armature accessed through brushes. and commutators.

   To accomplish what's depicted would take a dual winding

   armature with two sets of brushes on each end of the

   winding stack. I've seen armatures like this . . . 

   usually on dynamotors of the 1940-1960 era.

 [img]cid:.0[/img]

   Here's an example of a 3-winding armature for a 24v motor,

   and two high voltage generators all on the same piece of

   moving machinery!  I suppose one could do a 2-voltage

   starter with two 12 windings on one armature. It would have

   to be more complex than the drawing suggests.

   If you look at electron flow in the 24v mode, both coils

   run left to right. In the 12v mode, the left coil is

   left to right, the right coil is right to left . . . they

   would oppose each other unless the brush wiring to one

   of the windings is also reversed.

   Seems mighty complex just to get a "universal" starter.

  	  Quote: 	
		   It seems to me that wiring according to Van's diagram would work too, as long as 12 volts gets applied to that starter jumper-terminal while cranking. 	

   That's the way I see it too.

   Bob . . .

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Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: Starter and contactor wiring

Jesse,

 Bob has already expertly answered the question.

 For me, I was unsure whether it was the starter contactor or the starter  solenoid that stuck causing the run-on starter.  So, when I changed my  wiring, I reasoned that 1) if I were pressing the starter button, I would know  that  2) If the starter button itself stuck, I could see the starter light  still on and remove power  3) If the contactor stuck, I could see the  starter light on and remove power  4) The only way the starter solenoid  could stick is if the contactor stuck -  that is, removing power from a  not-stuck contactor would, by definition, remove power from the  starter.  Thus, a stuck starter solenoid can only occur if it is still  getting power from the contactor.  When power is removed from the  starter solenoid, then the gear drive will retract and disengage the  starter.

 For me, the starter engaged light is a worthwhile addition.  It tells  me that power is or is not applied across the starter contactor.  If it is  not lit, then power is not being applied to the starter terminals (or the bulb  is burned out)

 I considered running the starter light wire from the starter terminal, but  reasoned that nothing is gained by doing so since power at the contactor I  terminal indicates power is applied across the contactor.

 Regards,

 Stan Sutterfield

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  I'm    curious if the "starter engaged light" actually tells you anything    more

than that you are pressing the starter button with your thumb=2C which    you

should hopefully know already? In other words would the light actually    inf

orm you of a starter stuck on after the engine is running?

I had    been considering weather a light on the panel is worth wile or    not.

Thanks.

Jesse

PS I will be wiring like Vans=2C without the    jumper.

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

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