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Firefly again
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lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: Firefly again

All,

Quick question about the firefly. I looked through the archives of the list and couldn't quite find a discussion of this, if there is one already I apologize for asking again.



I'm curious about the legroom - i.e. I'm 5' 7" and wonder what a squeeze I would be in a FF? I remember with my FS II I actually had to fashion some extensions to put on the rudder pedals so I could reach them (Bob, the new owner kept them in fact, as he and I have similar statures ).



Just wondering how I'd fit in a FF? Havn't had a chance to sit in one yet so just curious.



Thanks,

LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: Firefly again

6'2" and 200 lbs..dressed....fit in the firefly just great...very 

comfortable..Herb

At 11:58 AM 2/10/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



All,

Quick question about the firefly. I looked through the archives of 

the list and couldn't quite find a discussion of this, if there is 

one already I apologize for asking again.



I'm curious about the legroom - i.e. I'm 5' 7" and wonder what a 

squeeze I would be in a FF? I remember with my FS II I actually had 

to fashion some extensions to put on the rudder pedals so I could 

reach them (Bob, the new owner kept them in fact, as he and I have 

similar statures ).



Just wondering how I'd fit in a FF? Havn't had a chance to sit in 

one yet so just curious.



Thanks,

LS



--------

LS

Titan II SS





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 85851#285851





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02/10/10 07:40:00

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

 	  herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: 	
		  6'2" and 200 lbs..dressed....fit in the firefly just great...very 

comfortable..Herb



	




Ok, thanks Herb.... Mental gears, they are a'turnin here....

I guess next thing is to try to find one to actually sit in...



Thanks,

LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

My second question on the FF and again sorry if this is an FAQ: Is the plane strong enough to handle the 503? At my altitude the 503 pretty much becomes a 447 so if I were to go with an FF I might consider putting a 503 on it. 

Also the 447 is likely going to be discontinued before the 503 if the rumors I've heard from some dealers are true so the 503 is a little more future-proof.



Thanks,

LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: Firefly again

Lucien,



I can't imagine that the FireFly would ever run out of climb with a 447.  

With a 503, you would have to be careful to keep the speeds down or you will 

have to counter balance the ailerons.  The 503 will weigh a little more, so 

will also have to give up some useful load.  And, you will not be able to 

take advantage of 103-7.



Just finished making more snow blower shear pins.  Have to go back out and 

blow some more so the wife can get back home.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



At 06:24 AM 2/11/10 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



My second question on the FF and again sorry if this is an FAQ: Is the plane strong enough to handle the 503? At my altitude the 503 pretty much becomes a 447 so if I were to go with an FF I might consider putting a 503 on it. 

Also the 447 is likely going to be discontinued before the 503 if the rumors I've heard from some dealers are true so the 503 is a little more future-proof.



Thanks,

LS

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  Lucien,



I can't imagine that the FireFly would ever run out of climb with a 447.  

With a 503, you would have to be careful to keep the speeds down or you will 

have to counter balance the ailerons.  The 503 will weigh a little more, so 

will also have to give up some useful load.  And, you will not be able to 

take advantage of 103-7.



Just finished making more snow blower shear pins.  Have to go back out and 

blow some more so the wife can get back home.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

	




Hi Jack,



Ok, thanks for the info. Sounds like the 447 is the better way to go on a FF in any case. 

Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kolb and build it too, so it's the way I want. Travis sent me some price lists and looks like the FF is significantly less expensive. Hopefully once I get some more debts paid down I can start getting more serious about it. 

Not sure if I'd go part 103 or not. I'd want to do the full Stitts process on the covering as at my altitude the sun cooks everything in sight with UV radiation all year round. So I'd want the full UV protection. I think that alone will put it outside of 103 from what I understand. So I'd probably just go EAB.



Snow has let up here, but only a few more weeks left in the good part of the flying season. Think it's going to start warming up finally.



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Firefly again

I believe there's a FF with a 912 on it -- flies beautifully.



On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:24 AM, lucien wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My second question on the FF and again sorry if this is an FAQ: Is  

 the plane strong enough to handle the 503? At my altitude the 503  

 pretty much becomes a 447 so if I were to go with an FF I might  

 consider putting a 503 on it.

 Also the 447 is likely going to be discontinued before the 503 if  

 the rumors I've heard from some dealers are true so the 503 is a  

 little more future-proof.



 Thanks,

 LS



 --------

 LS

 Titan II SS





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 85936#285936

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Firefly again

> Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kolb 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 LS

 Titan II SS


	


 Lucien C

  

   Although it does take away from my airplane time C I've told my wife I'd be willing to make the phone calls to get her a second job.  She's too busy to put much time into it C but she says she'd appreciate my sacrifice!

  

   The way I figure it C if she got a second job C I could stay out all day playing with my three airplanes C and only come in when she had dinner done.

  

   She says she's lucky to have me.  Hey C I can be thoughtful once in awhile.

  

 Mike Welch

 headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings.

  

  

 		 	   		  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Winrect/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.  [quote][b]

Michael Sharp

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: Oak Grove, MO (Kansas City)

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: Firefly again

You are SO GOOD to her!!!

  

 Mike

  

 do not archive



--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		     She says she's lucky to have me.  Hey, I can be thoughtful once in awhile.

 

Mike Welch

headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings.

 







	
 [quote][b]

_________________
The air up there in the clouds is very pure and fine...And why shouldn't it be?-
--It is the same the angels breathe.
Mark Twain,
Roughing it' 1886

Mike

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: Firefly again

Mike!Where can I find a Kolb-tolerant wife like yours??? What's your secret?

do not archive



On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Mike Welch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kolb 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 LS

 Titan II SS


	


Lucien,

 

  Although it does take away from my airplane time, I've told my wife I'd be willing to make the phone calls to get her a second job.  She's too busy to put much time into it, but she says she'd appreciate my sacrifice!

 

  The way I figure it, if she got a second job, I could stay out all day playing with my three airplanes, and only come in when she had dinner done.

 

  She says she's lucky to have me.  Hey, I can be thoughtful once in awhile.

 

Mike Welch

headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings.

 

 



Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Winrect/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:49 pm Post subject: Firefly again

Hi Russ,

  

   The secret comes from not letting her know what a big mouth I am.  he he

  

   I just back in from working on resetting all the new incidences to my MkIII's wings.  It seems like more work the second time around.  I also have to rest the mounts for the horiz. stabilizer, too.  

   Before I got real serious about drilling, I gave those great guys at TNK a call.  They sure are a helpful bunch!!   Dennis gave me the incidences I need to rig that hybrid up properly.

  

   BTW, the secret to having a great wife is being a great husband.    (41 years together)



 Mike Welch

 MkIII CX

  

  

  From: russkinne(at)mac.com

Subject: Re: Re: Firefly again

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:23:08 -0500

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com



Mike! Where can I find a Kolb-tolerant wife like yours??? What's your secret?

 do not archive

 



 

  On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Mike Welch wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  > Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kolb 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 LS

 Titan II SS


	


Lucien,

 

  Although it does take away from my airplane time, I've told my wife I'd be willing to make the phone calls to get her a second job.  She's too busy to put much time into it, but she says she'd appreciate my sacrifice!

 

  The way I figure it, if she got a second job, I could stay out all day playing with my three airplanes, and only come in when she had dinner done.

 

  She says she's lucky to have me.  Hey, I can be thoughtful once in awhile.

 

Mike Welch

headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings.

 

 



  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Winrect/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: Firefly again

At 10:39 AM 2/11/2010, lucien wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Not sure if I'd go part 103 or not. I'd want to do the full Stitts process on the covering as at my altitude the sun cooks everything in sight with UV radiation all year round. So I'd want the full UV protection. I think that alone will put it outside of 103 from what I understand. So I'd probably just go EAB. 	


 Personally, I wouldn't build a single seat plane unless for 103, unless there was some overriding reason.  Even though most of my flying, even when I had a 2 seater, was solo, there are still times when you want to take somebody along.  Between a Firefly and Firestar, I can't see any point in the FF except to go 103.



 -Dana

 --

  Exceeding the legal fun limit on a regular basis    [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Firefly again

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  

 Personally, I wouldn't build a single seat plane unless for 103, unless there was some overriding reason.  Even though most of my flying, even when I had a 2 seater, was solo, there are still times when you want to take somebody along.  Between a Firefly and Firestar, I can't see any point in the FF except to go 103.



 -Dana

 	


Yeah good point, and this will have to factor into it as to which one I'd go with. 



I'd strongly like to go 103 with a FF, but being able to actually meet 103 and insurance are two issues right off the top of my head I'd have to deal with immediately.

IIRC, the FF exceeds 254lb empty if you use the full Stitts process on the covering. But I'd definitely want to go ahead and do the whole process mostly for the longevity and full UV protection. Then I might want to use different wheels or a full windscreen, etc. all would add weight.

Apart from that, getting insurance on an ultralight, well, I'm almost afraid to ask my insurer what that would cost if I could even get it .



EAB certification would solve both of those problems pretty much. That would trash resale but OTOH I wouldn't be building it to sell.



The FS II of course I already have experience with, but it'd be more pricey to build. It's also a little bigger which would be an extra consideration if I ever trailer it, etc.



So... anyway, this is a long ways out before I could really do it so I have plenty of time on my hands to think it over and research it.



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: Firefly again

At 08:05 PM 2/11/2010, lucien wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Apart from that, getting insurance on an ultralight, well, I'm almost afraid to ask my insurer what that would cost if I could even get it . 	


 $386.25/year from USUA or ASC, whether N-numbered or not.

 <http://usua.org/Insurance/>

 <http://www.aerosports.org/resources/insurance/first-flight-insurance>



 If you're talking hull insurance, well, that might be more problematic...



 -Dana

 --

  Help, I've fallen up and I can't get down    [quote][b]

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

 	  lucien wrote: 	
		  At my altitude the 503 pretty much becomes a 447 LS 	




I note the altitude record (5th March 1989) of 'Facet Opel' microlight in Australia powered by a 447 was 29,996 Ft (9144m)



How high are you planning to go Lucien ?

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

I am just finishing a Firefly. I am 5'8". Built to plans there is no seat adjustment and the only rudder pedal adjustment is cable length during rigging ( not much). I can reach the pedals but only deflect them slightly. Will need a cushion on seat back. Kolb states that the Firefly is not strong enough for the extra weight or higher speed of the 503. If you have not purchased a kit yet I would avoid early Firefly kits. Mine is #22 and the welded parts were very poorly made. Kolb assures me the problem has been corrected (new welder and new jigs). Other than that I can find no fault with the design, strong, well engineered , high quality materials and excellent factory support.

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:45 am Post subject: Firefly again

At 10:53 AM 2/11/10 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I believe there's a FF with a 912 on it -- flies beautifully.




	


Russ,



Where can one find more info about this configuration?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: Firefly again

I think it is called a Slingshot!!   Herb

At 07:45 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



At 10:53 AM 2/11/10 -0500, you wrote:

 >

 >

 >I believe there's a FF with a 912 on it -- flies beautifully.

 >



Russ,



Where can one find more info about this configuration?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

02/11/10 07:35:00

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  

 $386.25/year from USUA or ASC, whether N-numbered or not.

 <url>

 <url>



 If you're talking hull insurance, well, that might be more problematic...



	




Ah hah - I'll have to show that to my ins. co (tho they're probably all the same underwriter ).



Whether I get hull would depend on how I paid for the plane of course (if you borrow of course the bank will require hull). It's super super pricey on my titan....



But the other concern like I said would be actually making 103. I don't know how close the stock/bare FF is in terms of weight, so would have to research that with whatever options (like the covering and possibly wind screen) I'd go with.



OTOH, I do still have my old C box with "Rice King" clutch and the spare 68" PF prop. That's a couple thousand bucks of stuff right there that'd give me a headstart on a 503 equipped FS II. 



Still pushing a pencil across the paper on it so I'll see what I come up with....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Firefly again

 	  David Lucas wrote: 	
		   	  lucien wrote: 	
		  At my altitude the 503 pretty much becomes a 447 LS 	




I note the altitude record (5th March 1989) of 'Facet Opel' microlight in Australia powered by a 447 was 29,996 Ft (9144m)



How high are you planning to go Lucien ?  	




Well my current airport is at 6300' MSL and 10,000' MSL is a kick around the patch for me. In my previous FS II, it was a good 5 to 10min climb to 8500 or 9000, where the view was good .



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

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