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harley(at)siriusconinc.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: Pneumatics

What have most of you been using for lubricating oil?



Martin Mattes



Re: Regarding winterizing I meant charging pneumatic system with alcohol-oil 

mix for winter cold proofin



You have to check with Yak 52 maintenance manual first.

I did it but it was long time ago (more then 20 years) and I may be wrong at 

some points. Procedure is the same when you are doing regular maintenance 

check.  First, this should be special lubricant which pneumatic system is 

usually charged with (white clear oil, you can fill its smell when you 

retract/extend the gear in flight) Second, alcohol 96% Proportion, 

volume????(do not remember exact number, 100-150gr/, 50/50 ) Charging: 

Discharge air, disconnect Air tank and inject mix in line pipe, connect it 

back.  (Ones you are doing this drain water condensate from the air tank) 

Charge the system with air.  Then very important moment: Jack up the plane 

,retract and extend gear few times, let this mix spread  inside of the 

system.  That is what I can remember 20 years later.

But it is always better to check with manual.



Vadim

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

It is a mix of 50% 100% Ethanol (not easy to find but you can order it from a good drugery) and 50% glycerine.

Then the advice of my experienced russian mechanic  is not to spill it allover the main air system but to put  a few cc (written into the maintenance manual) into the landing gear actuator.

  So you know where it goes..



If you don't have the maintenance manual I can search it for you.



Didier



2010/2/14 Martin (Home) <harley(at)siriusconinc.com (harley(at)siriusconinc.com)>

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Martin (Home)" <harley(at)siriusconinc.com (harley(at)siriusconinc.com)>

   

 

 What have most of you been using for lubricating oil?

 

 Martin Mattes

 

 

 

 Re: Regarding winterizing I meant charging pneumatic system with alcohol-oil mix for winter cold proofin

 

 You have to check with Yak 52 maintenance manual first.

 I did it but it was long time ago (more then 20 years) and I may be wrong at some points. Procedure is the same when you are doing regular maintenance check.  First, this should be special lubricant which pneumatic system is usually charged with (white clear oil, you can fill its smell when you retract/extend the gear in flight) Second, alcohol 96% Proportion, volume????(do not remember exact number, 100-150gr/, 50/50 ) Charging: Discharge air, disconnect Air tank and inject mix in line pipe, connect it back.  (Ones you are doing this drain water condensate from the air tank) Charge the system with air.  Then very important moment: Jack up the plane ,retract and extend gear few times, let this mix spread  inside of the system.  That is what I can remember 20 years later.

   But it is always better to check with manual.

 

 Vadim

 

 

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-- 

Didier BLOUZARD

didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)

0624243672

  [quote][b]

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Pneumatics

Hello,



truck garages should offer an antifreeze as trucks usually have pneumatic brakes. So this should be the right stuff that could possibly include some sort of lubricant for the seals as well. 



Vic

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

There is something called brake line anit-freeze that we use on  

airport trucks and blowers. I would NOT assume that it's suitable for  

the air system in a Yak / CJ. Is this really necessary? Winter is  

almost over.



If it's long term and there's a lot of snot in there, there is some  

danger of bollocksing up shuttle valves.

On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:44 PM, Vic wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hello,



 truck garages should offer an antifreeze as trucks usually have  

 pneumatic brakes. So this should be the right stuff that could  

 possibly include some sort of lubricant for the seals as well.



 Vic





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286453#286453

N13472(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Ok what in the hell is a (bollocks)?

Tom Elliott

CJ-6A NX63727

702-595-2680 



--

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Screw up, foul up, gum up. I this case, uncleared air system snot  

(which I think consists of water, oil and glycerine) can sit in the  

body of the shuttle valves thereby getting it stuck. The front-rear  

gear valve is more susceptible, and there is also a main-emergency  

valve. This from memory. Dennis, Doug and their ilk can verify or  

correct.

On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:



[quote] 



 Ok what in the hell is a (bollocks)?

 Tom Elliott

 CJ-6A NX63727

 702-595-2680



 --

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Bollocks is a general expletive used by British types. Probably a  

suitable substitute for the F-bomb. Example: "This Lucas electrical  

system is all bollocksed up. Why did we still use cloth insulation in  

the 70's?"



On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:



[quote] 



 Ok what in the hell is a (bollocks)?

 Tom Elliott

 CJ-6A NX63727

 702-595-2680



 --

harley(at)siriusconinc.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

winter is just starting in Canada... the coldest I got her started was 26F 

(-3C) without the "shower of sparks" ...its has never worked (replaced the 

coil, the rotor...etc) and yes we freeze our ass off once airborne.....

---

wise(at)txc.net.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Hi All,



When we do the 100 hourly or annual, whichever comes first, we jack the 

aircraft and carry out the emergency valve operation, which lowers and locks 

the undercarriage..

To get things back to normal one depletes the air in the system with valves 

closed by squeezing the brake lever.

Thus a fair amount of air is used and the system has to be recharged.

When recharging we put a small amount of light machine oil in the system and 

the air going  in spreads this around.

We have stripped and checked our uplocks and they were in top condition, no 

sign of rust or pitting.

This would be a good indication of the condition of the rest of the 

Pneumatic components.

I have heard of undercarriage failure, either left or right, due to the 

uplocks failing.  In one instance retaining nut let go due to rust or 

corrosion.

If never checked, would strongly recommend doing it as it is not difficult.

Had new seals made as original seals were a bit brittle.



Have just received the Kimball oil shut off valve and scavenge pump.

Aircraft stood for 3 weeks and have lock due to oil bypassing non return 

valve.

Oil level is down.

Believe that the oil shut off valve will fix this.

We already have manifold drain.



Cheers,

Chris Wise

---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

On the Yak 52, shuttle valves have hard, rubber balls inside  them.  The shuttle valves move only when the emergency air valve is turned  on.  The original shuttle valves on the CJ (not Doug's replacements with SS  balls inside) can easily rust and corrode and definitely cause problems.   The front and rear gear selectors can corrode and cause air leaks.   Particularly the rear gear selector because no one operates the gear from the  rear cockpit.  Most people don't even do a gear retraction test using the  rear cockpit selector during the annual condition inspection.  Then one day  the darn thing starts to leak and bingo, you now have a pain in the rear problem  of replacing it.  The extremely hard to find parts are the pipe to M12  metric flare fittings.  If you tear one of them up trying to remove it from  the old selector, you're in deep do-do because they are very hard to come  by.

  

 Dennis

 [quote]   ---

N13472(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

OK! Now I know! When you use it with the word LUCAS all is clear. Besides

the F word working

on a LUCAS system I have created many new appropriate words.



Tom Elliott

CJ-6A NX63727

702-595-2680  



--

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Preheat I hope... MInimum engine temp for the M-14P is 41F, right?



Buffalo, NY area here. Ready for spring.



I did make a groovy cowl heater with a disk heater from Harbor Freight  

and some off the shelf HVAC duct parts. I had considered using some of  

these heating pads available from farm supply places (really cheap),  

but there are so many things to heat. This convection method is pretty  

rapid, and covers everything except the oil cooler. With the 25-60 oil  

in there, I seem to get away with it.



On Feb 14, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Martin (Home) wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 winter is just starting in Canada... the coldest I got her started  

 was 26F (-3C) without the "shower of sparks" ...its has never worked  

 (replaced the coil, the rotor...etc) and yes we freeze our ass off  

 once airborne.....

 ---

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Why do the British drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas  

refrigerators. Old one, I know.

On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:09 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:



[quote] 



 OK! Now I know! When you use it with the word LUCAS all is clear.  

 Besides

 the F word working

 on a LUCAS system I have created many new appropriate words.



 Tom Elliott

 CJ-6A NX63727

 702-595-2680



 --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

Have you replaced the actual "shower of sparks" (starting  coil) unit?   It is located on the back side of the firewall above and  to the left of the over voltage protection unit.  It could also very easily  be the starting coil wire itself.  Seen this many times.  You will  need to purchase 5 mm wire to replace it.

  

 You can check the spark by first making sure the main air is  off.  Next, squeeze off all the air in the system using the brake  handle.  When it no longer goes "swish" when you release the brake handle,  move to the next step.  Now remove the starting coil wire from the left  magneto cap.  Place the end of the starting coil wire about 1/2" from any  metal on the engine.  Now turn on the BATT and IGN switches in the cockpit  and press the start button.  It would be best to have someone look at the  end of the starting coil wire to check the spark.  It should jump about  1/2".  It doesn't, do you hear the starting coil buzzing when you press the  button?  If yes, replace the starting coil wire and see if that doesn't fix  your problem.  Also while you have the mag cap off, clean the contacts,  particularly the starting coil contact and clean the ring around the outside of  the rotor cap.  Its where the starting coil contact comes in contact with  the rotor.  If the starting coil wire doesn't fix the problem, order a  starting coil from Doug Sapp.  The CJ's starting coil is identical (even  has the same part number stamped in the case as the Russian unit) to the Russian  unit.

  

 Dennis

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

What about doing a gear retraction during the annual from the  rear cockpit?

 Dennis

 [quote]   ---

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

I do a whole multi-step process that some clever person wrote that includes purging the system of air until the (fart?) valve releases. It also includes a stage where the less powerful emergency system is blowing the gear down while the main system is selected to up. The gear is partially down at that point, and that lets you move the gear a bit by hand, which I guess might reveal some issues you wouldn't otherwise detect. That list ddoesn't include cycling the gear from the back, but I always do that before and after the aforementioned process. 

On Feb 14, 2010, at 9:22 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

[quote]What about doing a gear retraction during the annual from the rear cockpit?

Dennis

[quote]---

william(at)netpros.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

I know in my YAK-55 the snot builds up and causes the check valves to 

leak .... so the system does not maintain pressure for more than two 

weeks and I have to charge the system from a SCUBA tank.  I know it's 

time to disassemble the tubing and clean things in gasoline when she 

loses pressure over a week.

At 05:13 PM 2/14/2010, Eric Wobschall wrote:

[quote]

Screw up, foul up, gum up. I this case, uncleared air system snot

(which I think consists of water, oil and glycerine) can sit in the

body of the shuttle valves thereby getting it stuck. The front-rear

gear valve is more susceptible, and there is also a main-emergency

valve. This from memory. Dennis, Doug and their ilk can verify or

correct.

On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:

>

>

>Ok what in the hell is a (bollocks)?

>Tom Elliott

>CJ-6A NX63727

>702-595-2680

>

>--

william(at)netpros.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

I know in my YAK-55 the snot builds up and causes the check valves to 

leak .... so the system does not maintain pressure for more than two 

weeks and I have to charge the system from a SCUBA tank.  I know it's 

time to disassemble the tubing and clean things in gasoline when she 

loses pressure over a week.

At 05:13 PM 2/14/2010, Eric Wobschall wrote:

[quote]

Screw up, foul up, gum up. I this case, uncleared air system snot

(which I think consists of water, oil and glycerine) can sit in the

body of the shuttle valves thereby getting it stuck. The front-rear

gear valve is more susceptible, and there is also a main-emergency

valve. This from memory. Dennis, Doug and their ilk can verify or

correct.

On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:

>

>

>Ok what in the hell is a (bollocks)?

>Tom Elliott

>CJ-6A NX63727

>702-595-2680

>

>--

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:23 pm Post subject: Pneumatics

The product originally used by the Russians (sixties/seventies of the former

century) is not available anymore, and its content is unknown. What the

Russians and the Lithuanians advise now, is a 50/50 volume mixture of very

clean glycerine and 96% ethylalcohol, only a few cubic centimeters per

actuator. The Russians started using this mixture in the eighties and they

loved doing this work, because they could order somewhat more ethylalcohol

and use it for their own home-made wodka (at least this has been told to me

by a Russian mechanic).



The Russian and Lithuanian mechanics insert it straight into the actuators,

using an injection needle and at the same time pumping with the gear leg to

suck it in.



Jan RA2005K YK50

--

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: Pneumatics

Guys,As many of you know up until 2008 one of my duties in life was to preserve flowers (Riverview Floral LTD), primarily Gypsophila, which is a small wildflower used mainly as a filler flower in bouquets and floral arrangements.  Without boring you with all the biology, and chemistry involved, I'll get to the nuts and bolts of the process.  We normally would use 5 to 7000 gallons of USP grade Glycerine annually.  Glycerine is both a humectant (absorbs water), and a plasticizer which lends flexibility to the product once introduced into the cellular structure of the plant.

 



Alcohol also has the ability to absorb moisture, so the use of these two items in limited amounts in the pneumatic system should be a good thing unless we have an 0 ring incompatibility problem with the Ethyl alcohol.  Glycerine is inert, so no worries there.  I say "limited quantities" because many of the gear actuators which I have been getting in for cores have most if not all of the high pressure grease washed out of them because of over lubrication with light machine or tool oil which was incorrectly injected into the system.

 



Do NOT mess with Methyl alcohol, it's very bad stuff, nerve damage, blindness, are only a few of the problems associated with the use of this chemical.   

I have a limited amount of US Pharmaceutical Grade Glycerine which could be decanted into gallon jugs (it's in 55 gallon drums now).   Price is about $25.00 per gallon.  Weight is 10.41 pounds per gallon.

 



Always Yakin,

Doug



On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)>

  

 The product originally used by the Russians (sixties/seventies of the former

 century) is not available anymore, and its content is unknown. What the

 Russians and the Lithuanians advise now, is a 50/50 volume mixture of very

 clean glycerine and 96% ethylalcohol, only a few cubic centimeters per

 actuator. The Russians started using this mixture in the eighties and they

 loved doing this work, because they could order somewhat more ethylalcohol

 and use it for their own home-made wodka (at least this has been told to me

 by a Russian mechanic).

 

 The Russian and Lithuanian mechanics insert it straight into the actuators,

 using an injection needle and at the same time pumping with the gear leg to

 suck it in.

 

 Jan RA2005K YK50

 



 

 --

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