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to be pf or not to be

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jimshaner(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: to be pf or not to be

Ok I bought a rebuilt 264 tt m14p that was on n26mx suhkoi.  Was on ebay C I was first to bid and won for 13.5k. Shipped from Canada.  Owners decided on using a Lycoming instead for their Moose project.  I bought this as a spare for my 52 but actually thought I would be outbid. It was claimed to be a 400 hp Pf but no such entry in P engine log on any such change.  Was told prior owner had told them mod was done and "dyno" showed it produced 410hp.  No other details.  Question-how much to convert to pf? I will not tear down to see if PF parts in engine.  What should I ask for if no proof forthcoming?  Even if PF C no log entries  as advertised?  Who did work?

  

 Regards C

 Jim

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

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george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: to be PF or not to be

Jim,   

          The Sukhoi N26MX is a 1996 airplane. If the engine came with the airplane than it was probably an early Russian converted engine. I see that N26MX now has a Walter turbine on it. If you have the serial number you should contact Richard Goode and ask him if it was one of theirs. The original owner was Ray Vetsch of Albuquerque. You might contact him as well.  If it is an early Russian PF then the life of the engine was only supposed to be very short in the range of 100hrs between overhaul.  

          Besides two facilities in Russia making 400 Hp engines, there is the Romanian Factory and I think two in Lithuania.   

          There are two different designs for the PF engines. The Russian design and the Romanian design. The Romanian design simply changed the gear ratio. It is my understanding that the Russian design also changed the supercharger impeller design and reduced the number of seals between the supercharger case and the main case.   

          Check the engine test page in the log and it should show the HP and manifold pressure at max RPM. (2,950). We did see a Russian “PF” once that was built up from bits of other engines and only made 401 HP at 3100 RPM.   

              

George Coy  

CAS Ltd.  

714 Airport Rd.  

Swanton VT 05488  

802-868-5633 off  

802-363-5782 cell  

george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)  

http://coyafct.com/  

  

SKYPE george.coy  [quote] [b]

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n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: to be pf or not to be

If your engine is electric start and you bought it from a Murphy Moose builder in Canada off e bay then it may be my old engine. They also said they were going to go with a Lyc 540 If it is then it is a PF and only had 82 hrs on it before they rebuilt it. They had the original log book showing it dynoed at the factory at 402 HP. 



I do not know who rebuilt the engine but they bought it from me after a crash for $13,500 and allegedly put 12 K into a rebuild. To replace it with a Lyc 540 and then sell it for $13K doesn't sound right.



Does it look like the data plate has been changed?



I doubt a stock PK would Dyno at 410. 



Somethings fishy.



[quote="jimshaner(at)msn.com"]Ok I bought a rebuilt 264 tt m14p that was on n26mx suhkoi.ï¿½ Was on ebay C I was first to bid and won for 13.5k. Shipped from Canada.ï¿½ Owners decided on using a Lycoming instead for their Moose project.ï¿½ï¿½I bought this as a spare for my 52 but actually thoughtï¿½I would be outbid. It was claimed to be a 400 hp Pf but no such entry in P engine log on any such change.ï¿½ Was told prior owner had told them mod was done and "dyno" showed itï¿½produced 410hp.ï¿½ No other details.ï¿½ Question-how much to convert to pf? I will not tear down to see if PF parts in engine.ï¿½ What should I ask for if no proof forthcoming?ï¿½ Even if PF C no log entriesï¿½ as advertised?ï¿½ Who did work?

 ï¿½

 Regards C

 Jim

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

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Milt

westcoastkitplanes(at)gma
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: to be pf or not to be

FWI.....



The guys that sold the engines are on the up & up and I can say that because

I've dealt with personally.  Both you guys that bought engines got a great

deal and the guys selling got soaked on them (financially that is).



Cheers,

Jeff

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Chris Wild <jlbpropilot(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



[quote] 



 The engine in question is not the one you had Milt. I bought your old

 engine from the same guy last spring. I have the original logbooks with your

 entries in it and the entries from the overhaul. When I purchased it from

 him it was because they were putting a flat engine on their Moose as well

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jbuseman

Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Location: Iowa

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: to be pf or not to be

The engine in question is not the one you had Milt. I bought your old engine from the same guy last spring. I have the original logbooks with your entries in it and the entries from the overhaul. When I purchased it from him it was because they were putting a flat engine on their Moose as well. Much like Jim I threw in a bid not anticipating I would end up with it but was happy to when it was over. I saw the one Jim purchase on Ebay awhile back and noticed it was being sold by the same guy at the same location. The gentleman was a physician and it sounded as if he has a couple of buddies that build airplanes for/with him. The engine that I received was as represented as far as I can tell even though I haven't done anything with it. I did think it was odd when I saw the ebay listing and they had another rebuilt M-14. 



My first post was deleted because I had not registered yet. I would have to agree with Jeff, they were great to deal and at this point I have no reason to think there is anything suspect.

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n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:47 am Post subject: Re: to be pf or not to be

 	  Quote: 	
		  it was being sold by the same guy at the same location.



I would have to agree with Jeff, they were great to deal and at this point I have no reason to think there is anything suspect.

	




If they are the same people I would tend to agree also. It was a group of docs building a Moose. They paid promptly for the engine, arranged their own pickup and transport. The one I dealt with stayed in touch for awhile then just dissappeared, apparently he was killed in an accident. Nice guy, former list member.

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_________________
Milt

jimshaner

Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Location: colorado

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: to be pf or not to be

Thanks gentlemen for your input.  I have a green "service log", surprisingly in English, that show it was made in 1991 and installed in the su 26 in 92.  Test shows 355hp, 2900rpm, and "excess 126 mm hg". So I think it is stock P.  Concerning what George said, it does have entry for overhaul life at"takeoff" 35 hrs "till first overhaul", 100 hrs overhaul life for "normal I and normal II.  Do all 14p's have this limit?  Could this be the 100 hr limit George talked about for a pf? Also says it was "preserved" in 1992- so not sure what that means unless the first page showing "arrangement" followed by the su-26mx,su-29 entry in pencil was added later.



Anyways, the Canadians were gentlemen and a good deal is better than a bad deal.  I will try and contact the Su owner and see if any history on conversion to pf. Having had two engines perhaps Canadians got it mixed up.



I checked my Yak52td engine and it is indeed pf though that nomenclature is nowhere to be found in log or on engine plate.  An entry in log shows various parts exchanged in the supercharger and some to the carb.  I assume by Termikas..



By the way both engine logs show  hours into the 10ths as from a hobbs meter.  Does anyone having a Yak have a hobbs meter installed?

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