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GPU for Piper

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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:22 am Post subject: GPU for Piper

Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al?  Piper wants 2-3 thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising.  Surely there is a more man's substitute available?

Chuck Jensen

bgray(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: GPU for Piper

A 28v/30a regulated power supply and a jumper cable should be all that

is needed.



My PS is manufactured by Astron. (VLS 35M, about $400)



http://www.astroncorp.com/showpage.asp?p=6

Bruce

www.Glasair.org 



--

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

Thanks, Bruce...but then, I suppose one has to hook that up to the Piper plug, which is only overpriced by about double.  Nonetheless, your link was a good one.



Thanks,

Chuck Jensen



Diversified Technologies

2680 Westcott Blvd

Knoxville, TN  37931

Phn:    865-539-9000 x100

Cell:    865-406-9001

Fax:     865-539-9001

cjensen(at)dts9000.com



--

n801bh(at)NetZero.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part # 

11042 plug 

With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring 

grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket. 

Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place. 

  

do not archive 

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



--------

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

Thanks  for the refresher, Ben, I recall of having seen that part number before and it  may well suit my purposes.

 

Chuck Jensen  

  [quote]   --

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

[quote]  

è    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen"

 <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>

 

 Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground

 power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for

 powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing

 armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al?  Piper wants 2-3

 thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising.  Surely there is a more

 man's substitute available  

   

Chuck,  

If I understand correctly, that you want to operate the electronics without the engine running.  If this is the case, why not just connect a battery maintainer to your battery, plug it in, and it will keep your battery at full charge while running the electronics, provided you have a maintainer with enough capacity.  I would assume you would not need more than about 10 amps, so it would not take a very large unit to accomplish this task.  

Roger   [b]

Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I bought the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft Spruce after reading Bob N’s article on modifying for our OBAM aircraft.    

   

ACS catalog page: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf  

   

AeroElectric connection article: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf  

   

Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me?  Socket was 10 oz. and plug was 7.2 oz.  I guess I really might not have needed the plug as FBO is supposed to have this on his “battery cart?”  

   

Not sure if I am going to use it but it is not decision time yet.  

   

Allen Fulmer  

RV7 Finishing wiring  

   

     

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com

 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:37 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GPU for Piper  

  

   



 Go to any auto parts store... Look for Cole Hersee part #  

11042 plug  

With ground return terminal. Brass female contact with spring  

grip tension provides solid engagement with the mating socket.  

Cable clamp holds cable firmly in place.  

   

do not archive  



 

 Ben Haas

 N801BH

 www.haaspowerair.com

 

 --------

_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

At 08:08 PM 2/13/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Not sure if this is actually relevant to the original question but I bought the Cole Hersee Piper style socket and plug from Aircraft Spruce after reading Bob N’s article on modifying for our OBAM aircraft.  

  

 ACS catalog page:  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2010Individual/Cat10463.pdf

  

 AeroElectric connection article:  http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf

  

 Socket and plug seemed kind of heavy to me?  Socket was 10 oz. and plug was 7.2 oz.  I guess I really might not have needed the plug as FBO is supposed to have this on his “battery cart?” 	


   Yup . . . that's the general rule. Actually, the

   "Piper" connector is a lighter, lower cost

   alternative to the AN2551 found on other brands

   and the heavier Piper aircraft. The C.H. 11041

   and mating connector was originally created for

   the ground based vehicles market like OTR trucks

   and electric fork-lifts. I've used this connector

   on several 100+ AMP test systems for really BIG

   motors. To my knowledge, Piper was the only folk

   who used this connector on the lighter singles. I'm

   pretty sure all Brand C and Brand B airplanes used

   the AN2551. Any FBO worth his ground power revenues

   will have both.



   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:14 am Post subject: GPU for Piper

Roger,

  

 Yes, exactly.  the G1000 has a ton of features,  but they are only useful if one knows how to find them.  The mechanical  part can be read in the manual, but the reflexive part can only be learned  through arm-chair flying, so powering the panel is the objective.   

  

 Your battery charger/minder idea is a good one,  but I don't know how much load can be shed to reduce amp draw.  During  normal operations, it's pretty high at 67 amps, but that's with a bunch of  accessories and lights running.  Perhaps the G1000 load will be <10 amp,  but something less than 20 amps is probably in a safe range.   

  

 I want to be able to  use the same power source for powering the panel and then, setting it (or  having it smart enough) to go to 1 amp for trickle charging the battery longer  term.  I certainly don't want to damage the battery by overcharging,  since the replacement cost implies that Piper has replaced the convention  lead-acid battery with a gold-acid battery.

  

 So, the task is to find a 110v input charger that  will output 20 amp 24V for arm-chair flying but is smart enough to go to 1 amp  long term charging rate, the max recommended for the Concorde 38AH battery,  when used for battery charging or topping off.   

  

 Are bigger versions of some of the battery minders  discussed here appropriate for the task?  Apologies for asking others to do  my homework, but it's frustrating to know just enough about an issue to have  doubts.

 

Chuck  Jensen 

 [quote]   Chuck,

       	  Quote: 	
		       

If I understand      correctly, that you want to operate the electronics without the engine      running.  If this is the case, why not just connect a battery      maintainer to your battery, plug it in, and it will keep your battery at      full charge while running the electronics, provided you have a maintainer      with enough capacity.  I would assume you would not need more than      about 10 amps, so it would not take a very large unit to accomplish this      task.     

Roger 



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:50 am Post subject: GPU for Piper

At 07:12 AM 2/14/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Roger,

  

 Yes, exactly.  the G1000 has a ton of features, but they are only useful if one knows how to find them.  The mechanical part can be read in the manual, but the reflexive part can only be learned through arm-chair flying, so powering the panel is the objective.  

  

 Your battery charger/minder idea is a good one, but I don't know how much load can be shed to reduce amp draw.  During normal operations, it's pretty high at 67 amps, but that's with a bunch of accessories and lights running.  Perhaps the G1000 load will be <10 amp, but something less than 20 amps is probably in a safe range.  	


    You would do well to first understand your

    electrical system's demands and deduce what

    level of control you have over those demands.



    The radio will be less than 10A in a 28v system.

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 I want to be able to use the same power source for powering the panel and then, setting it (or having it smart enough) to go to 1 amp for trickle charging the battery longer term.  I certainly don't want to damage the battery by overcharging, since the replacement cost implies that Piper has replaced the convention lead-acid battery with a gold-acid battery. 	


    The device necessary to operate your systems on

    the ground is not a battery charger nor a battery

    maintainer. It's a power supply. You need to do

    a survey of energy requirements for accomplishing

    the proposed ground operations. This means get a

    hall effect ammeter . . . or install a temporary

    shunt in the battery lead. Bring the readout

    device into the cockpit and then start flipping

    switches/pulling breakers. 



    See what configuration of breakers and controls

    gives you the desired functionality . . . and

    the measure the current necessary to meet that

    design goal.



  	  Quote: 	
		   

 So, the task is to find a 110v input charger that will output 20 amp 24V for arm-chair flying but is smart enough to go to 1 amp long term charging rate, the max recommended for the Concorde 38AH battery, when used for battery charging or topping off.  	


    If your power supply emulates alternator performance

    then it would be set for 28.5 volts and it would

    also charge the battery. For ground ops, you don't

    want to burden a power supply tailored to the task

    with charging a battery also. Hence, you would set the

    power supply down to 25.0 volts.

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Are bigger versions of some of the battery minders discussed here appropriate for the task?  Apologies for asking others to do my homework, but it's frustrating to know just enough about an issue to have doubts. 	


    We had some discussions here on the list for crafting

    a professional grade ground power supply for supporting

    maintenance on both 14 and 28v airplanes. The elegant

    solution came in the form of an older, Hewlett-Packard

    robust bench supply on the order of 30 to 40 amps. This

    size device necessarily ran on 240 volts.



    But even a 40A supply would not support the ship's

    heaviest loads like air conditioners or transient

    loads like landing gear retraction systems. Having

    the battery 'floated' across the bus would support

    transient loads . . . but it's not enough snort

    to run large continuous loads.



    So the task before you is to define what list

    of goodies needs to be supported and then deduce

    how much current is required to support those items

    plus those over which you have no control.



    When you have that number, we can suggest sources

    for the hardware suited to your task.



    Bob . . .

     [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:05 am Post subject: GPU for Piper

At 08:12 AM 2/14/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Chuck's major problem is that he has a 28v airplane, I thought

jumpstarts only come in 12v.


	


    Correct . . .



 	  Quote: 	
		  If you want to go the battery route, buy a couple of cheap auto

batteries and connect them in series to give you 28v, add a battery

charger and a ground service plug and you should be set for 1-2 hours of

ground playtime.


	


    An excellent alternative to a plug-in-the-wall power

    supply if one accepts limits to the duration of any

    one session. You would want to add a voltmeter to the

    system (if not already present) and send class out to

    recess when the battery(ies) dropped below about 23

    volts.



    Class could resume once battery chargers had

    the batteries topped off.



    You also need to see how the ship's battery

    is tied to the system when ground power is plugged

    in. Some manufacturers tied their ground power

    to the battery side of the battery contactor.

    This allowed charging a battery externally without

    having the whole airplane "hot". Others tied it

    to the bus such that ground power could operated

    the airplane with the ship's battery contactor

    open. There are good reasons for either philosophy,

    you need to know which one has been applied to

    your airplane.



    The other handy thing about a battery cart is

    portability. It can be used to start airplanes

    remote from AC mains power. It could be fitted

    with both the C-H "Piper" style plug and an

    AN2551 compatible plug. With some creative

    switching, the batteries could be series or

    parallel connected to support both 14 and 28v

    airplanes.



    Bob . . .



[quote]Bruce

www.Glasair.org



--

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

Nuck/Roger/Bruce,

  

 Good  ideas all.  Bob suggested external power suggestion that sometimes it  is connected through the battery and other times around the battery.  In  this case, the Meridian has external power plugged with the battery contactor  open (off).  For utility purposed, the battery start pack and a good high  amp charger seems like it would serve my purposes and still have the utility of  starting/charging the plane or other's plane.

  

 I like  the idea of having the battery in the circuit as has been advised many times on  this site, it's a world class capacitor and keeps a lot of things from bad  endings when things don't go exactly right.

  

 I  believe the minimum am load is about 12-13 amp, but the POH doesn't speak to it  directly.  I'm going to check with Piper to see if they see any  shortcomings of this method.  Hopefully, I can wrangle an answer out of  them after they give me the spiel for the $3K charger.

 

Chuck Jensen 

 

  [quote]   --

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:54 am Post subject: Re: GPU for Piper

You may want to consider a 24 or 28 volt power supply like one of these.



http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=3&main=1



Or you could get a pair of 12 volt supplies and wire them in series.



http://www.feathermerchantrc.com/



http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=19395



 	  cjensen(at)dts9000.com wrote: 	
		  Does anyone know of an (relatively) inexpensive source for a ground power unit (GPU) that can be plugged into the wall that can be used for powering a plane's panel, such as a Piper Meridian or Malibu for doing armchair flying to sort through GPS controls, et al?  Piper wants 2-3 thousand, which seems pricey, by not surprising.  Surely there is a more man's substitute available?

Chuck Jensen

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

dfritzj(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: GPU for Piper

I've been using a pair of 7Ahr AGM batteries for ground power for my  

28V system. They can be had at any of the on-line battery houses for  

about $20 and are easy to maintain. Works like a charm.



Dan

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