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Bubbles in windshield fairing

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rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Clearly I still have no idea what I'm doing with fiberglass.  In the attached picture you can see numerous bubbles in the layup of our windshield fairing. Is this anything to be concerned about?

  

 Thanks...

  

 -Rob

-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 "Finishing" Kit

Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)

http://kochman.net/N819K

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

>From the picture it is very difficult to tell what it is that we are supposed to be seeing.

  

 Maybe these are bubbles, maybe it is unsaturated fiberglass(resin deprived)

  

 Either way, the cure is the same. More elbow grease while working the resin into the glass fibers. You should be using a disposible paint brush and angling it at say a 60 degree angle to the layup and smashing the glass so the resin works its way into the glass. You will hear popping noises, these are all the airbubbles being worked out of the layup. If done correctly, the hand and wrist gets quite a workout and the bristles on the brush get really beat up by the end of the job. You will learn how to use this meathod to get the glass to creep where you want it to.

  

 As I have said before, never use the same brush with different epoxy batches, it will let the new batch fire off way sooner than it would have with a new brush.

  

 JOhn

 

  Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:46:24 -0800

Subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com



 Clearly I still have no idea what I'm doing with fiberglass.  In the attached picture you can see numerous bubbles in the layup of our windshield fairing. Is this anything to be concerned about?

  

 Thanks...

  

 -Rob

-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 "Finishing" Kit

Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)

http://kochman.net/N819K



 		 	   		    [quote][b]

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

What epoxy are you using?  I would recommend the MGS 335 epoxy with the slow hardener if you are new to epoxy.  It is virtually odorless and is easy to work with and has excellent wet out properties along with superior structural integrity.   The photo is hard to judge, but the rule of thumb for building a Rutan composite building for defects is nothing more than 10% of the area.  That's a lot of defect leeway and one would have to be really sloppy to have that much!  Use a 1" natural hair bristle paint brush (the cheap ones from Harbor Freight are perfect)  and "stipple" the epoxy into the cloth.  Use a hair dryer for heat while you do this.  It makes wetting the glass out a lot easier.  Use a hand held light and inspect  your work for air bubbles and cloth that is not wet out,,,,,defects will really stand out with light.   You can go to the EAA web site under builder tips for instructional videos.  YouTube also has a lot.  Good luck.  

  

David Clifford



RV-10 In Progress

Empennage Done

Engine Overhauled & Pickled

Closing up The Wings  



---

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

One more thing.  Sometimes no matter how hard you try,,,you can't get some air pockets out by stippling, Use a tooth pick or better yet a metal pick to poke the glass to make a separation in the fibers to allow the air to stipple out.



David Clifford



RV-10 In Progress

Empennage Done

Engine Overhauled & Pickled

Closing up The Wings  



---

jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

I used one of those plastic rollers made for fiberglassing. It really helps to lay down the glass saturating it to eliminate bubbles

From: indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:58:08 -0800

 .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}     >From the picture it is very difficult to tell what it is that we are supposed to be seeing.

 Maybe these are bubbles, maybe it is unsaturated fiberglass(resin deprived)

 Either way, the cure is the same. More elbow grease while working the resin into the glass fibers. You should be using a disposible paint brush and angling it at say a 60 degree angle to the layup and smashing the glass so the resin works its way into the glass. You will hear popping noises, these are all the airbubbles being worked out of the layup. If done correctly, the hand and wrist gets quite a workout and the bristles on the brush get really beat up by the end of the job. You will learn how to use this meathod to get the glass to creep where you want it to.

 As I have said before, never use the same brush with different epoxy batches, it will let the new batch fire off way sooner than it would have with a new brush.

 JOhn

  Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:46:24 -0800

Subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

From: rv10rob(at)gmail.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Clearly I still have no idea what I'm doing with fiberglass.  In the attached picture you can see numerous bubbles in the layup of our windshield fairing. Is this anything to be concerned about?

 Thanks...

 -Rob

-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 "Finishing" Kit

Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)

http://kochman.net/N819K

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	

arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

http://forums.matronics.com

="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 		 	   		  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge29/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.  [quote][b]

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Thanks, guys... I'm using West System w/ the fast hardener (it's pretty cold here).  The glass was definitely wet enough; as was suggested, I think the problem is that I wasn't aggressive enough pushing the resin and getting the bubbles out from between layers.  If this was a critical structural piece, I might think about whether it's satisfactory, but I'm thinking I'm fine here.  Will call Van's in the morning to verify.

   

 Interestingly, I'm working on my spinner tonight, and it has quite a few bubbles as well.

  

 Thanks again for the help...

  

 -Rob

 On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:32 PM, <davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]  One more thing.  Sometimes no matter how hard you try,,,you can't get some air pockets out by stippling, Use a tooth pick or better yet a metal pick to poke the glass to make a separation in the fibers to allow the air to stipple out.   

 



David Clifford



RV-10 In Progress

Empennage Done

Engine Overhauled & Pickled

Closing up The Wings  



---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Rob Kochman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Clearly I still have no idea what I'm doing with fiberglass.  In the 

 attached picture you can see numerous bubbles in the layup of our 

 windshield fairing. Is this anything to be concerned about?

I don't think so.  You need to cut a cheap brush down so it's stiff. 
	


Use it and some resin to poke where the bubbles are and the bubbles will 

work their way out.  Well, it won't work well on the hardened fairing 

very well, if at all ..... but it will on subsequent layers.

Linn

 	  Quote: 	
		    

 Thanks...

  

 -Rob

 

 -- 

 Rob Kochman

 RV-10 "Finishing" Kit

 Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)

 http://kochman.net/N819K

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

DLIUDVINAITIS(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

HEY ROB

        PROBLEM YOU MIGHT BE HAVING IS IF YOU  ARE LETTING LAY UPS CURE. LAY-UP OVER THIS THIS CURED EPOXY HAS A AMINE  BLUSH AFTER CURING THIS AMINE BLUSH IS REMOVED WITH WATER ONLY THEN SANDED THIS  WILL MAKE A SECONDARY BOND BETTER. I USED WEST SYSTEM ALSO HAD EXCELENT  RESULTS WITH WINDSHIELD FAIRING. ALSO GET FRON YOUR EXPOXY DEALER THE  MANUAL FOR WEST SYSTEM. (ITS FREE) 

  

 DAVE

 NJ #40466, FINISHING,WIRING ,ENGIN

  

  

  In a message dated 2/15/2010 8:52:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,  rv10rob(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Clearly I still have no idea what I'm doing with fiberglass.  In the    attached picture you can see numerous bubbles in the layup of our windshield    fairing. Is this anything to be concerned about?

    

   Thanks...

    

   -Rob

-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 "Finishing"    Kit

Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)

http://kochman.net/N819K



	


  [quote][b]

David Shelton

Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 22
Location: C77

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Rob,



You mentioned that it was cold there. Many resins get more viscous at lower temperatures, making it more difficult to wet out the cloth. Make sure you are working at the recommended temperature for your resin and work out the bubbles with a stippling action of the brush.

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Don MacDonald gave me some advice a few months back.. use a work light. the 

500w one sold at HF put out a fair amount of heat. I just completed my 

plenum using the light and everything cured well, and more quickly.. In a 

cold environment just set the lamp a few feet away from the work area and it 

will produce the added heat. I set a thermometer over the work area to keep 

the glass at 80-85 degrees.



--------------------------------------------------

From: "David Shelton" <SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com>

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:41 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Bubbles in windshield fairing



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Rob,



 You mentioned that it was cold there. Many resins get more viscous at 

 lower temperatures, making it more difficult to wet out the cloth. Make 

 sure you are working at the recommended temperature for your resin and 

 work out the bubbles with a stippling action of the brush.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286745#286745

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: Bubbles in windshield fairing

Be really careful with a heat lamp or work light near the plexiglass.  Ask me how I know!  For sure use the thermometer you talked about, but keep in mind the temp will climb if it's not regulated.  We've been using some electric blankets for temp control lately that work really well.  If you pushed one down inside the base of the windshield that should keep the aluminum and the plex warm but not too hot.

  

I agree with the other comments regarding the bubbles.  Small specks like that aren't going to have much effect one the layup.  A little more resin/working time/warmth might have helped but from the picture I saw I wouldn't redo it.

  Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net (rv10builder(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10builder(at)verizon.net (rv10builder(at)verizon.net)>

 

 Don MacDonald gave me some advice a few months back.. use a work light. the 500w one sold at HF put out a fair amount of heat. I just completed my plenum using the light and everything cured well, and more quickly.. In a cold environment just set the lamp a few feet away from the work area and it will produce the added heat. I set a thermometer over the work area to keep the glass at 80-85 degrees.

   

 --------------------------------------------------

 From: "David Shelton" <SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com (SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com)>

 Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:41 PM

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Subject: Re: Bubbles in windshield fairing



 

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "David Shelton" <SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com (SBaircraft(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Rob,

 

 You mentioned that it was cold there. Many resins get more viscous at lower temperatures, making it more difficult to wet out the cloth. Make sure you are working at the recommended temperature for your resin and work out the bubbles with a stippling action of the brush.

   

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286745#286745

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

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[b]

Ron B.

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 103
Location: Nova Scotia

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Bubbles in windshield fairing

If your working in cooler environments, keep your resin warm before you mix it. I find this helps alot.

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