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vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au
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 Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: Aileron Stops |
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Hi Guys,
I have just about finished installing the upgrade mods and I am just about
to do the aileron stops. I have stops on the wing at the aileron control
arm. Why do I need them in the fuse as well?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
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Terry Phillips
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: Aileron Stops |
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Peter
I believe that the reason for the constraint on the stick movement is so
that you do not overstress the aileron control system. That was potential
problem before the upgrade reinforced the aileron bell crank support. The
strength of the original design bell crank support was marginal at best.
(See, e.g., Ihab Awad's back of the envelope calculation that was posted on
the ZBAG forum many moons ago.) The reinforced system should have ample
strength, but, for a couple of ounces, they apparently decided to eliminate
the possibility of excessive tension on the control cables. IIRC, the
Germans required the stick constraint (which was part of CZAW's
configuration) as a condition for ungrounding their 601XL's. So they are
now consistent on both sides of the Atlantic.
Terry
At 12:08 PM 2/8/2010 +1100, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Guys,
I have just about finished installing the upgrade mods and I am just about
to do the aileron stops. I have stops on the wing at the aileron control
arm. Why do I need them in the fuse as well?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
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Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;
Balancing the ailerons and working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings. |
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Stops |
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Could I add that something does not seem to add up. Given that the original stops are still to be used, the new parts (6-ZU-4-1 and 6-ZU-4-2) are redundant stops. The FAA and EAA guidelines say that if there are stops at a control surface, no other stop should exist in the system that restricts movement first. If we follow this rule, then the new parts will be guaranteed to do nothing. This sounds like a poor solution to a poorly thought out German rule.
On the flip side, I have always found that the area around the hinge and the aileron connecting part 6W2-1 to be weak. It is easy to bend them by deflecting the aileron with the stick locked in place. I had already beefed up the area around the hinge more than the new plans call for and was planning to add another support to strengthen 6W2-1.
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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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Louie928
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Mosier, OR USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Stops |
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I don't think the original aileron stops on the rear spar are supposed to be installed after the upgrade. I can't find instructions to put them back on. The 6-ZU-4.pdf, http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-up-bldr.html, instructs that the size of the opening in the aileron stop that is put in the fuselage should be enlarged to set the aileron travel limits. That is the only aileron travel stop after the upgrade. The ones on the wing aren't there.
| mhubel wrote: | Could I add that something does not seem to add up. Given that the original stops are still to be used, the new parts (6-ZU-4-1 and 6-ZU-4-2) are redundant stops. The FAA and EAA guidelines say that if there are stops at a control surface, no other stop should exist in the system that restricts movement first. If we follow this rule, then the new parts will be guaranteed to do nothing. This sounds like a poor solution to a poorly thought out German rule.
On the flip side, I have always found that the area around the hinge and the aileron connecting part 6W2-1 to be weak. It is easy to bend them by deflecting the aileron with the stick locked in place. I had already beefed up the area around the hinge more than the new plans call for and was planning to add another support to strengthen 6W2-1. |
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Louis W. Ott
601XL-B Corvair |
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DaveG601XL
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Stops |
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Louis,
For what it's worth, the new Zenith pre-flight inspection guide, just issued, talks about both the fuselage and wing mounted aileron stops being there. Items# 295 and 303.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/601XL-PRE-FLIGHT-INSPECTION-Feb-2010.pdf
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David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area |
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Louie928
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Mosier, OR USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Stops |
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That's interesting. I wonder why redundant aileron stops?
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Louis W. Ott
601XL-B Corvair |
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Louie928
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Mosier, OR USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Stops |
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I emailed Mathieu Heintz regarding the aileron stops. He said the external stops are to be retained. No explanation why, or what purpose they serve.
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Louis W. Ott
601XL-B Corvair |
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paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject: Aileron Stops |
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Um, just a question-----"Preflight inspection guide, Items 295 and 303"? What is this, a Light Sport Aircraft, or a B-52? "All right, people, tomorrow we're going to fly our 601s out to Happy Valley for brunch. Show up time will be 0400, preflight inspection will start at 0430, and takeoff will be at 0900, with arrival at 0935. Those who don't finish their preflights before 0900 will be Flight Two, leaving at 1100. You'll get lunch. Scales will be provided to measure the weight of the paperwork, which must equal or exceed 1320 pounds before flight. No fair using cardboard for pages."
Paul R
[quote]
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Doug.Norman(at)sportaviat
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: Aileron Stops |
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From the first paragraph:
“Use this inspection check list before flying your aircraft for the first time, when performing a major inspection
(annual) or when reassembling the aircraft, after performing major alterations or repairs or in the event that you
purchased the aircraft, after a hard landing, after exceeding the airframe design limitations, etc.”
They are attempting to help you go over your airplane after some major change. I regard their document as a great service.
From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of paulrod36(at)msn.com
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:02 PM
To: zenith601-list
Subject: RE: Re: Aileron Stops
Um, just a question-----"Preflight inspection guide, Items 295 and 303"? What is this, a Light Sport Aircraft, or a B-52? "All right, people, tomorrow we're going to fly our 601s out to Happy Valley for brunch. Show up time will be 0400, preflight inspection will start at 0430, and takeoff will be at 0900, with arrival at 0935. Those who don't finish their preflights before 0900 will be Flight Two, leaving at 1100. You'll get lunch. Scales will be provided to measure the weight of the paperwork, which must equal or exceed 1320 pounds before flight. No fair using cardboard for pages."
Paul R
> Subject: Re: Aileron Stops
> From: david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com
> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:49:29 -0800
> To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>
>
> Louis,
>
> For what it's worth, the new Zenith pre-flight inspection guide, just issued, talks about both the fuselage and wing mounted aileron stops being there. Items# 295 and 303.
>
> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/601XL-PRE-FLIGHT-INSPECTION-Feb-2010.pdf
>
> --------
> David Gallagher
> 601 XL/Jabiru 3300
> First flight 7/24/08
> 116.5 hours and holding (incorporating upgrade)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286147#286147
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g========================
>
>
> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
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[quote][b]
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DaveG601XL
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
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| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Stops |
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Yep, right there in the first paragraph. I hope Happy Valley has no B-52's doing low level runs today.
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David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area |
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: Aileron Stops |
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Probably because is Aviation... Double of everything 
Saludos
Gary Gower.
601 Jab 3300 waiting for the Upgrade Kit
--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Louie928 <louieo(at)gorge.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Louie928 <louieo(at)gorge.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron Stops
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 12:10 PM
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Louie928" <louieo(at)gorge.net (louieo(at)gorge.net)>
That's interesting. I wonder why redundant aileron stops?
DaveG601XL wrote:
--------
Louis W. Ott
601XL beginner Quick Build
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286155#28615= - The Zenith601-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Na========================
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