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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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 Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: Oil Shut off |
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Gang,
I think I can succinctly give my perspective on this.
The internal oil shutoff valve is great...when it works. The question is, do you want to disassemble and clean it every time particulate gets attached to the ball to restore it's proper function?
Electric shutoff. I have run them on my CJ's for nearly all of my roughly 1000 hrs. behind them, and there are dozens, if not scores of others that have flown with these Whittaker type valves without incident. I'd say that over 10,000 hours of flying without a known failure incident in this application alone is pretty good "proof in the pudding."
In my opinion, $45 for a valve is awfully lucky, if not less than smart. There are applications that it makes sense to find less expensive solutions - engine systems are not on of those places, in my opinion. Even the valves that are out there for hundreds of dollars are likely to be very old and long since out of commission - again, unless you get really lucky. In any event, replacement parts, are tough to come by and very expensive, as Blitz says.
The simple mechanical valve made by Kimball is about as fail safe as it comes (as mentioned previously, I believe), is relatively inexpensive, light weight, small, simple to install,. For this reason we are now exclusively installing the Kimball valve on our aircraft. This is, in our opinion, a modern day solution to the ongoing maintenance headache that is the 40+ year old design of the internal ball valve.
Happy Flying,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
"Making your warbird dreams a reality"
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Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
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threein60(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: Oil Shut off |
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Maybe I was a little casual in my remarks. Let me clarify my answer. If any mechanical valve or structure is attached to the existing oil tank bungs, you WILL have to re-enforce the lower part of the tank and the existing Chinese bungs. As pointed out, the Chinese aluminum is thin in this area and can not and should not support any other structure with exception of the original fitting and hose. People who have done this mod, that I have seen, have done just that and I have seen nor heard of any other cracks developing from the mod.
Second: A starter cut-off circuit is a must if you install any device that can starve your engine from oil if not opened properly. This should be done in such away that monitors the limit switch in the full open or full closed position. If a valve opens half way, you will want to know. A smart design would include a cut-off of the started solenoid and the shower of sparks.
Lastly: The easiest to install and design is the simple Kimball valve. But, if you wish to install an ITT/ Whittaker or any other electric actuated valve is fine too. There is a surplus of modern day, still in production, parts available valves out there if you know where to look.
Forr instance, Bell 206, Cessna Jet and MD helicopter valves are great and still in production. These valve have a high MTBF, but still fail eventually. The trick is to find a valve that works, is not too old and surplus availability is good. As I meantioned, I have two or three that function and can use for parts and paid on average $45.00 each. If you know what your looking for, it's not a bad deal.
Larry Pine
--- On Sat, 2/27/10, Barry Hancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com> wrote:
[quote]
From: Barry Hancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com>
Subject: Oil Shut off
To: Yak-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:52 AM
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <[url=/mc/compose?to=bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com]bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com[/url]>
Gang,
I think I can succinctly give my perspective on this.
The internal oil shutoff valve is great...when it works. The question is, do you want to disassemble and clean it every time particulate gets attached to the ball to restore it's proper function?
Electric shutoff. I have run them on my CJ's for nearly all of my roughly 1000 hrs. behind them, and there are dozens, if not scores of others that have flown with these Whittaker type valves without incident. I'd say that over 10,000 hours of flying without a known failure incident in this application alone is pretty good "proof in the pudding."
In my opinion, $45 for a valve is awfully lucky, if not less than smart. There are applications that it makes sense to find less expensive solutions - engine systems are not on of those places, in my opinion. Even the valves that are out there for hundreds of dollars are likely to be very old and long since out of commission - again, unless you get really lucky. In any event, replacement parts, are tough to come by and very expensive, as Blitz says.
The simple mechanical valve made by Kimball is about as fail safe as it comes (as mentioned previously, I believe), is relatively inexpensive, light weight, small, simple to install,. For this reason we are now exclusively installing the Kimball valve on our aircraft. This is, in our opinion, a modern day solution to the ongoing maintenance headache that is the 40+ year old design of the internal ball valve.
Happy Flying,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
"Making your warbird dreams a reality"
http://= - List Contributionsp; &bsp;-->
[quote][b]
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Oil Shut off |
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Good post, Larry. I was not at all trying to be contrary. 
Like you say, the $45 dollar valves are good for part...if you wish to take the time and have the required skills to do the job correctly. I have the Whittaker valve on my CJ and will keep it there until it wears out.
As you and others pointed out the MUST is an electrical interrupt that prevents engine start with the valve closed.
As for the oil tank mod...mine was done (back in the day before this hobby became a business) with the "plate" and cracked after less than 200 hours of flying. The design isn't optimal and puts all the pressure on the 4 corners...which makes a crack at some point more likely. We 4 use gussets around the bungs which are incredibly strong and disburse the load along a much wider area on that soft, thin, Chinese aluminum. Ultimately, time will tell, but the design seems to be "the next step" in longevity.
Barry
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_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com |
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