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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Hi Folks:



Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise 

insulating self-adhesive foam.  At the time, I did not see a requirement for 

it, but now I do.



After rebuilding the mkIII center section with sheet metal and not lexan, I 

am now flying in a true snare drum.  Blamed it on my radio, my hearing, and 

anyone else that was standing around, when I realized I had created a drum. 

The 10.5 hour flight day returning from Homer Kolb's funeral almost killed 

me.  Not only was I deaf as a door knob, but the noise had beat the crap out 

of me and I was worn out well before I saw Gantt IAP and home.



Need to get some and get the noise killed before I start serious flying in 

April.



Thanks,



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

At 10:44 PM 2/22/2010, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>



 Hi Folks:



 Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise 

 insulating self-adhesive foam.  At the time, I did not see a requirement for 

 it, but now I do. 	


 John, E-A-R is one manufacturer.  McMaster-Carr sells many of their products.



 -Dana

 --

  America is at that awkward stage.  It's too late to work within the system,

 but too early to shoot the bastards.    [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam

John, I found that regular automotive headliner material helps a lot, there is a local fabric and sewing shop that has a half dozen different colors in stock. It has foam on the back, and that generic headliner fabric on the facing side,  put it on with spray upholstery contact adhesive. Don't know if it is as effective as dedicated sound dampening foam, but it is readily available, looks real good, light weight and fairly easy to work with. One layer would stop the aluminum from vibrating, I suppose you could use two layers to get that Lexus-quiet ride...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

John,



Try

http://www.mcmaster.com/#sound-absorbers/=5xxn8t



Gene



On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:44 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Folks:



 Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise

 insulating self-adhesive foam.  At the time, I did not see a  

 requirement for

 it, but now I do.



 After rebuilding the mkIII center section with sheet metal and not  

 lexan, I

 am now flying in a true snare drum.  Blamed it on my radio, my  

 hearing, and

 anyone else that was standing around, when I realized I had created  

 a drum.

 The 10.5 hour flight day returning from Homer Kolb's funeral almost  

 killed

 me.  Not only was I deaf as a door knob, but the noise had beat the  

 crap out

 of me and I was worn out well before I saw Gantt IAP and home.



 Need to get some and get the noise killed before I start serious  

 flying in

 April.



 Thanks,



 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Thanks to everyone that responded to my request for Noise Insulating Foam.



I have to get some relief.  Not only is the noise overpowering me, but is 

interferring with my radio transmissions.  I've got some foam rubber to seal 

the front of the tailboom.  I think that is a noise source also, plus a 

draft.



john hauck

mkIII

Tutus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

> Hi Folks:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise 

 insulating self-adhesive foam.> 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama 

  
	


 Hey John, everyone,

  

   A couple of years ago I bought some insultation from America's greatest auto parts vender......J.C. Whitney.  (the greatest part was a joke, guys)

  

   I still haven't installed it. I bought for the firewall on the GlaStar I was building.  IIRC, it's got adhesive on one side, and something really shiny on the other, like aluminum foil.  The insulation stuff looks like a horse blanket  (I think...I haven't looked it over for a couple of years)  I'm headed out to my shop in a few minutes, I'll find it and get a better look.

  

   The stuff I have is that shiny insulation they spread all over the interior of a car, prior to carpet and door panel reinstallation.

  

 Mike Welch

 spring looks like it's around the corner here in central Missouri

 MkIII

  

 BTW, I've been meaning to ask about Gantt IAP.  I can't seem to find it.  Is that your personal airport facility?



 		 	   		  Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.  [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

John,

  

   I just ran out and checked on my JCW insultion.  The shiny part and the horse blanket part is correct, but there isn't any adhesive on one side.  Evidently, if someone wants this stuff to stay in place, they have to get some of that 3M spray adhesive.

   If you didn't mind a silvery look, this stuff may be what you want.  It feels like a good product, and I'm certain it would absolutely deaden a lot of the noise.

  

   Let me know, and I'll mail you a chunk of it to inspect.  (it's about 1/4" thick)

  

  

 Gene,

  

   I also measured (the best I could) my gear leg's length.  It's awful hard to tell where the top end is, since it's inside the mounting tube, but it is really close to 36-38".

  

 Mike Welch

 

 	  Quote: 	
		    	
 		 	   		  Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SP target='_new'>Sign up now.  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:11 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Mike W/Gang:

  

 I have found a good source of skinned polyurethane,  adhesive on one side.  Probably go with that.

  

 Gantt IAP is my 750 foot airstrip located on the  Gantt Farm, 3 miles by road from my house.  It is located in a cow pasture  and I have been flying out of it for 26 years.  I have two hangers.   For the first time in 26 years, I have no cows or cow manure mining my  airstrip.  That won't last long though.  New cattleman is heading  this way with his cows this Spring.  The strip is not registered.  I  saw no need to get involved with the bureaucracy and red tape of the  Federal Government.

  

 I made my first solo fixed wing flight out of this  strip when it was 650 feet long, in 1984, with no fixed wing training, other  than what I could learn from a stack of stick and rudder books I got at the US  Air Force Air University Library, Maxwell AFB, Alabama.  Being an Army  helicopter pilot helped tremendously, but did not cover all the bases.   Took two take offs and landings to get it right.  I screwed up my first  landing in an airplane.  All other phases of fixed wing flight, I had no  problem with.  My biggest fear as a rotary wing pilot only was stall  speed.  This was something I had never dealt with until the day I decided  to fly my brand new Ultrastar.

  

 Do not recommend this type flight training  procedure for anyone.

  

 A nice 3,000 foot airport would have been much  safer.

  

 I have built three Kolbs.  All made their  initial flights out of Gantt IAP.

  

 Gantt is truly an international airport.   Every international flight I have made was initiated here.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

  

  

 [quote]      The stuff I have is that shiny    insulation they spread all over the interior of a car, prior to carpet and    door panel reinstallation.

 

Mike Welch

spring looks like it's    around the corner here in central Missouri

MkIII

 

BTW, I've    been meaning to ask about Gantt IAP.  I can't seem to find it.  Is    that your personal airport facility?

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:32 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Hi Folks:



Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise 

insulating self-adhesive foam.  At the time, I did not see a requirement for



it, but now I do.



 



john hauck



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


John  and the group



I had found some material that I was going to do some more checking on.

It is called "floor muffler"  it is a sound and moisture control

underlayment  manufactured by diversified foam products, inc. 

 1 800 440 6008   WWW.flooringunderlayments.com

  

It is .07 inches thick.  Where I found it was at a place that sells hardwood

floors.  They had a sample of this and some other underlayments mounted on

some plywood, then had a sample of hardwood floor mounted on top.  They had

a golf ball that could be used as a striking device and when hit the noise

was maybe 1/4 as loud as compared to the other underlayment in the same

display.  I know we are not talking apples to apples but the material is

extremely light weight, and would have to be mounted with some type of spray

on adhesive or contact cement.



Good luck



Boyd Young MkIII

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

John,

 Hi-Tech Foams Lincoln NE 402-470-2346.I believe the product is called Denso-Foam.It's 1/2" thick

 

   peel and stick on the white side,black on the other.

   G.Aman

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Gary A/Gang:

  

 That is the one I remember now.

  

 Thanks a million.

  

 I'll check them out.

  

 Did you use this in your airplane? or know someone that  did? have any results?

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 titus, alabama

  

  

 [quote]    Hi-Tech Foams Lincoln    NE 402-470-2346.I believe the product is called Denso-Foam.It's 1/2"    thick



   peel and stick on    the white side,black on the other.

  G.Aman



   

    

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

OK.

  

 Thanks,

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

  

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		      Got yards of the stuff    everywhere I thought it would help.In the center cover on root ends.on both    sides of the spar carry through and on the inside of the top and in the    cabin.Ask Rick if it helps.

      

	
   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam

Here is another source of soundproofing products.



http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing



I've not tried any of these.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Here is another source of soundproofing products.



http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing



I've not tried any of these.



--------

Thom Riddle





Thanks, Thom R:



I like this one, RoadBlockR:



http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html



It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks.  My mkIII will 

easily compete with these two for producing loud noise.



Price seems within reach.  All I need to do is determine how much I need and 

order it.  Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being 

bombarded with.



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam

I think I'll be ordering some of this RoadBlocker too. I didn't see that particular style until you pointed it out, John.  I'll probably put some overhead permanently and a removable piece between the back seat and aft fuselage area. Might even add some to the fabric in the aft fuselage area. At 1/2 lb per sqft, the wt penalty is minimal.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

At 10:35 AM 2/25/10 -0600, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I like this one, RoadBlockR:



http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html




	


John,



Still seems expensive and heavy.  Standard house extruded foam insulation 

weighs only about 0.1 pound per square foot per inch thickness.  Might be 

worth a try.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam

I'm not a sound engineer but seem to recall reading that unlike thermal insulation, the density of the acoustic barrier material is an important factor in reducing dbl levels. If this is the case, then the lightest material may not do the job. I've been researching this since this subject came up but have not found any definitive information on it.



Since Will Uribe works in this area, maybe if he is monitoring this thread he might be able to add something useful for our mutual benefit.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

Still seems expensive and heavy.  Standard house extruded foam insulation

weighs only about 0.1 pound per square foot per inch thickness.  Might be

worth a try.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Jack H/Gang:



I went down to the big city of Wetumpka, AL, last night to check out what 

they had at Lowes.  Problem with this stuff is the fire hazard and the 

noxious fumes created by fire, which would be deadly in some crashes.  Based 

on my flying style and geographic hazards where I fly, I don't mind spending 

more for a product, even though there is a weight penalty involved, if it 

won't kill me if I crash and burn.  Primarily, I want to kill some of the 

noise, and do it safely.



There is another problem with spilled fuel when refueling.  My fuel filler 

is on the top left rear half of the center section.  I haven't checked but 

spilled fuel would probably melt the foam insulation.



Thanks for your input.



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam

I found the following site to be helpful in explaining this subject, including the sound barrier ratings. This site also sells the RoadBlockeR and other acoustic materials.



http://www.soundproofcow.com/how-we-test-sound-blocking-products.html

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: Noise Insulating Foam

John H.,

  

   Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset?  I bought one of those Headsets, Inc. kits that you install yourself.  I bought it from them at the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow.  I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 .

  

   Results;  for me, mixed.  My hearing is bad.  Damn near gone, I think.  Severe tinnitus, too.  

  

   When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones, I'd say the background noise reduction is better, but definitely not gone.  I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method, if you have experience with one.

  

 Thanks,   Mike Welch

  

  

  

  

  

   

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam

 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 

 

 Here is another source of soundproofing products.

 

 http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing

 

 I've not tried any of these.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 

 

 

 

 Thanks, Thom R:

 

 I like this one, RoadBlockR:

 

 http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html

 

 It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will 

 easily compete with these two for producing loud noise.

 

 Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and 

 order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being 

 bombarded with.

 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama 

 

 

&gt=====================
	


[quote] _==========

 

 

 

 		 	   		  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Fr_new'>Sign up now.   	  Quote: 	
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