Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

vibration in mains on roll out
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
wprunty(at)sewanee.edu
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory several times. I have rebalanced the tires, changed to new and better tires (Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness. I have balanced the wheel covers, have installed a new axel for the nose, a new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help), and have installed a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more. I also installed new doenuts at 300 hours, have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if only one or two people are in the plane. I land with full flaps, flare with a little power in and stick all the way back, (on final, the plane feels like a balloon, or the hand of God sustaining you), but after touch-down and just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter. They shutter a lot if you apply the brakes, especially if you are rolling down hill when you apply the brakes. They shutter none or very little (now, after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and you just hold the stick back and roll out. This seems the be an issue with the angle from which weight rests on the mains, and the change in that angle as the plane slows, also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator, letting the nose sink a little more. (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.) The whole thing reminds me of being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are thrown forward, minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train doesn't vibrate.

I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up attitude for the nose, which should retard dip in the nose, such dip seeming to coincide with the onset of vibration. Otherwise I am out of ideas, so write you guys.

Question: Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or braking? Given everything already done to address this vibration, is raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step? Wisdoms welcomed.

In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have encountered, though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too, and the 6 I have flown has no vibration on roll out. Both planes, of course, have round, tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas, dancing like Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.

Wyatt N814BW
[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
msausen



Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Na…. no one else has seen that before. Smile Seriously though, LOTS of discussion on this subject in the past and a good search of the archives will net you discussions on many of the things you have already tried. Recently there was discussion on the toe in/out and how easy it was to end up with wildly varying toe measurements with just a little movement when drilling the mains. Might be worth checking your toe adjustment.

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wyatt Prunty
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:53 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: vibration in mains on roll out



I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory several times. I have rebalanced the tires, changed to new and better tires (Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness.  I have balanced the wheel covers, have installed a new axel for the nose, a new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help), and have installed a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more. I also installed new doenuts at 300 hours, have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if only one or two people are in the plane. I land with full flaps, flare with a little power in and stick all the way back, (on final, the plane feels like a balloon, or the hand of God sustaining you), but after touch-down and just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter. They shutter a lot if you apply the brakes, especially if you are rolling down hill when you apply the brakes. They shutter none or very little (now, after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and you just hold the stick back and roll out. This seems the be an issue with the angle from which weight rests on the mains, and the change in that angle as the plane slows, also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator, letting the nose sink a little more. (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.) The whole thing reminds me of being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are thrown forward, minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train doesn't vibrate.



I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up attitude for the nose, which should retard dip in the nose, such dip seeming to coincide with the onset of vibration. Otherwise I am out of ideas, so write you guys.



Question: Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or braking? Given everything already done to address this vibration, is raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step? Wisdoms welcomed.



In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have encountered, though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too, and the 6 I have flown has no vibration on roll out. Both planes, of course, have round, tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas, dancing like Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.



Wyatt N814BW
Quote:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
Quote:
5
Quote:
6
Quote:
7
Quote:
8
Quote:
9
[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

I had the same problem with my 6 and I fasted wood stiffeners the same
length as the gear leg under the gear fairing and the problem went
away.

I have not tried it on my 10 since my problem shows up with passengers
in the back only and it is not that bad.

Do not archive

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:30 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:
Quote:
Na…. no one else has seen that before. Smile  Seriously though, LOTS of
discussion on this subject in the past and a good search of the archives
will net you discussions on many of the things you have already tried.
Recently there was discussion on the toe in/out and how easy it was to end
up with wildly varying toe measurements with just a little movement when
drilling the mains.  Might be worth checking your toe adjustment.

Michael

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wyatt Prunty
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:53 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: vibration in mains on roll out

I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory
several times.  I have rebalanced the tires, changed to new and better tires
(Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness.
I have balanced the wheel covers, have installed a new axel for the nose, a
new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help), and have installed
a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more.  I also installed
new doenuts at 300 hours, have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if
only one or two people are in the plane.  I land with full flaps, flare with
a little power in and stick all the way back, (on final, the plane feels
like a balloon, or the hand of God sustaining you), but after touch-down and
just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter.  They
shutter a lot if you apply the brakes, especially if you are rolling down
hill when you apply the brakes.  They shutter none or very little (now,
after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and
you just hold the stick back and roll out.  This seems the be an issue with
the angle from which weight rests on the mains, and the change in that angle
as the plane slows, also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator, letting
the nose sink a little more.  (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear
and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.)  The whole thing reminds me of
being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are
thrown forward, minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train
doesn't vibrate.

I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up
attitude for the nose, which should retard dip in the nose, such dip seeming
to coincide with the onset of vibration.  Otherwise I am out of ideas, so
write you guys.

Question:  Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or
braking?  Given everything already done to address this vibration, is
raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step?  Wisdoms welcomed.

In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have
encountered, though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too, and the 6 I have
flown has no vibration on roll out.  Both planes, of course, have round,
tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas, dancing like
Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.

Wyatt N814BW

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

http://forums.matronics.com

http://www.matronics.com/contribution


--
Rob Kermanj


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Harmonic dampning...wood stiffners? Crutches for Tiny Tim.
 
I will be so upset if I have this problem
 
Quote:
Date: Tue C 9 Feb 2010 17:21:49 -0500
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out
From: flysrv10(at)gmail.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

--> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com>

I had the same problem with my 6 and I fasted wood stiffeners the same
length as the gear leg under the gear fairing and the problem went
away.

I have not tried it on my 10 since my problem shows up with passengers
in the back only and it is not that bad.

Do not archive

On Tue C Feb 9 C 2010 at 1:30 PM C RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:
> Na…. no one else has seen that before. Smile  Seriously though C LOTS of
> discussion on this subject in the past and a good search of the archives
> will net you discussions on many of the things you have already tried.
> Recently there was discussion on the toe in/out and how easy it was to end
> up with wildly varying toe measurements with just a little movement when
> drilling the mains.  Might be worth checking your toe adjustment.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wyatt Prunty
> Sent: Tuesday C February 09 C 2010 11:53 AM
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: vibration in mains on roll out
>
>
>
> I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory
> several times.  I have rebalanced the tires C changed to new and better tires
> (Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness.
> I have balanced the wheel covers C have installed a new axel for the nose C a
> new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help) C and have installed
> a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more.  I also installed
> new doenuts at 300 hours C have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if
> only one or two people are in the plane.  I land with full flaps C flare with
> a little power in and stick all the way back C (on final C the plane feels
> like a balloon C or the hand of God sustaining you) C but after touch-down and
> just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter.  They
> shutter a lot if you apply the brakes C especially if you are rolling down
> hill when you apply the brakes.  They shutter none or very little (now C
> after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and
> you just hold the stick back and roll out.  This seems the be an issue with
> the angle from which weight rests on the mains C and the change in that angle
> as the plane slows C also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator C letting
> the nose sink a little more.  (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear
> and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.)  The whole thing reminds me of
> being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are
> thrown forward C minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train
> doesn't vibrate.
>
>
>
> I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up
> attitude for the nose C which should retard dip in the nose C such dip seeming
> to coincide with the onset of vibration.  Otherwise I am out of ideas C so
> write you guys.
>
>
>
> Question:  Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or
> braking?  Given everything already done to address this vibration C is
> raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step?  Wisdoms welcomed.
>
>
>
> In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have
> encountered C though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too C and the 6 I have
> flown has no vibration on roll out.  Both planes C of course C have round C
> tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas C dancing like
> Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.
>
>
>
> Wyatt N814BW
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>



= Archive Search & Download C 7-Day Browse C Chat C FAQ C

&g===
[quote]


Quote:
[b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
jkreidler



Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

We had this same issue, turns out our axle nuts needed to be tightened. Try re-torquing the axle nuts.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Mine have shaked since day one and I have done quite a few things to try and fix it.
Here is my list of items I have tried.

1. Balance tires with wheel weights
2. New Flight Custom III tires
3. Tighten the wheel nut
4. Balanced wheel pants
5. Remove the wheel nuts and use the beads you put in the tubes that dynamically balance the tire
6. Remove Flight Custom III put a more rounded re-tread tire on
7. Made sure both wheels had toe-in between 0 and 1 degree. I had to drill out the left main with a larger bolt (after talking with Van's) to get .4 degrees of toe-in.
8. ??????

I have posted this before, but Van says that the wood on the gear has worked with RV-4's and 6's in the past but that seems like a weird fix. The problem is the gear design. The round gear is the worst design but was designed that way for cost.

I have thought about ordering a new set of gear legs but I really want someone out there to make a titanium set with the proper shape. You could add 50 more lbs to you useful load if we had titanium gear legs.

Not sure what I will try next, but I no longer worry about it and just let them shake when I land. I am switching out my brake lines for a braided line.
I will keep trying stuff and let you know when I find a fix.

Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

From: Wyatt Prunty <wprunty(at)sewanee.edu>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 10:53:26 AM
Subject: vibration in mains on roll out

I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory several times. I have rebalanced the tires, changed to new and better tires (Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness. I have balanced the wheel covers, have installed a new axel for the nose, a new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help), and have installed a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more. I also installed new doenuts at 300 hours, have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if only one or two people are in the plane. I land with full flaps, flare with a little power in and stick all the way back, (on final, the plane feels like a balloon, or the hand of God sustaining you), but after touch-down and just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter. They shutter a lot if you apply the brakes, especially if you are rolling down hill when you apply the brakes. They shutter none or very little (now, after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and you just hold the stick back and roll out. This seems the be an issue with the angle from which weight rests on the mains, and the change in that angle as the plane slows, also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator, letting the nose sink a little more. (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.) The whole thing reminds me of being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are thrown forward, minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train doesn't vibrate.

I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up attitude for the nose, which should retard dip in the nose, such dip seeming to coincide with the onset of vibration. Otherwise I am out of ideas, so write you guys.

Question: Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or braking? Given everything already done to address this vibration, is raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step? Wisdoms welcomed.

In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have encountered, though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too, and the 6 I have flown has no vibration on roll out. Both planes, of course, have round, tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas, dancing like Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.

Wyatt N814BW
Quote:




[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Mine came on progressively, hold the nose up till the tail stops flying, roll out about 20 mph and hit the brakes…BRBRBRBRBRBRBRB…release the brakes….stops instantly. I’m leaning towards possible brake chatter/grab now, the intensity is never the same but the speed where I apply the brakes is usually pretty close…Anyone consider the brake pads may be the problem? It seems more annoying than anything else but with vibration comes wear at some part of the airframe. It only does it landing, I’ve never had it that fast in a taxi to make it vibrate.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:43 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out



Mine have shaked since day one and I have done quite a few things to try and fix it.
Here is my list of items I have tried.

1. Balance tires with wheel weights
2. New Flight Custom III tires
3. Tighten the wheel nut
4. Balanced wheel pants
5. Remove the wheel nuts and use the beads you put in the tubes that dynamically balance the tire
6. Remove Flight Custom III put a more rounded re-tread tire on
7. Made sure both wheels had toe-in between 0 and 1 degree. I had to drill out the left main with a larger bolt (after talking with Van's) to get .4 degrees of toe-in.
8. ??????

I have posted this before, but Van says that the wood on the gear has worked with RV-4's and 6's in the past but that seems like a weird fix. The problem is the gear design. The round gear is the worst design but was designed that way for cost.

I have thought about ordering a new set of gear legs but I really want someone out there to make a titanium set with the proper shape. You could add 50 more lbs to you useful load if we had titanium gear legs.

Not sure what I will try next, but I no longer worry about it and just let them shake when I land. I am switching out my brake lines for a braided line.
I will keep trying stuff and let you know when I find a fix.


Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com




From: Wyatt Prunty <wprunty(at)sewanee.edu>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 10:53:26 AM
Subject: vibration in mains on roll out
I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory several times. I have rebalanced the tires, changed to new and better tires (Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness. I have balanced the wheel covers, have installed a new axel for the nose, a new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help), and have installed a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more. I also installed new doenuts at 300 hours, have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if only one or two people are in the plane. I land with full flaps, flare with a little power in and stick all the way back, (on final, the plane feels like a balloon, or the hand of God sustaining you), but after touch-down and just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter. They shutter a lot if you apply the brakes, especially if you are rolling down hill when you apply the brakes. They shutter none or very little (now, after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and you just hold the stick back and roll out. This seems the be an issue with the angle from which weight rests on the mains, and the change in that angle as the plane slows, also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator, letting the nose sink a little more. (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.) The whole thing reminds me of being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are thrown forward, minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train doesn't vibrate.



I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up attitude for the nose, which should retard dip in the nose, such dip seeming to coincide with the onset of vibration. Otherwise I am out of ideas, so write you guys.



Question:  Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or braking? Given everything already done to address this vibration, is raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step? Wisdoms welcomed.



In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have encountered, though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too, and the 6 I have flown has no vibration on roll out. Both planes, of course, have round, tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas, dancing like Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.



Wyatt N814BW
Quote:
0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
Quote:
5
Quote:
6
Quote:
7
Quote:
8
Quote:
9
Quote:
0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
partner14



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:39 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Just like the a lot of you, I ended up with a vibration that only showed itself around 40mph... takeoff or landing. This last week I installed air stop type tubes and Goodyear FC3's on the mains... but only after balancing them. First flight was UNBELIEVABLE,,, not a bit a movement... so much nicer.... but the friend flying with me, says "but what about the landing". Well the landing was also perfect.... Can't tell you how much nicer that is.... So anyway, that worked for me.... hope it continues as the tires age.
Don McDonald

Rick and Deems, see ya soon, we're leaving in the morning.


--- On Mon, 2/15/10, Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net> wrote:

Quote:

From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: vibration in mains on roll out
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 10:13 AM


Mine came on progressively, hold the nose up till the tail stops flying, roll out about 20 mph and hit the brakes…BRBRBRBRBRBRBRB…release the brakes….stops instantly. I’m leaning towards possible brake chatter/grab now, the intensity is never the same but the speed where I apply the brakes is usually pretty close…Anyone consider the brake pads may be the problem? It seems more annoying than anything else but with vibration comes wear at some part of the airframe. It only does it landing, I’ve never had it that fast in a taxi to make it vibrate.



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:43 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out



Mine have shaked since day one and I have done quite a few things to try and fix it.
Here is my list of items I have tried.

1. Balance tires with wheel weights
2. New Flight Custom III tires
3. Tighten the wheel nut
4. Balanced wheel pants
5. Remove the wheel nuts and use the beads you put in the tubes that dynamically balance the tire
6. Remove Flight Custom III put a more rounded re-tread tire on
7. Made sure both wheels had toe-in between 0 and 1 degree. I had to drill out the left main with a larger bolt (after talking with Van's) to get .4 degrees of toe-in.
8. ??????

I have posted this before, but Van says that the wood on the gear has worked with RV-4's and 6's in the past but that seems like a weird fix. The problem is the gear design. The round gear is the worst design but was designed that way for cost.

I have thought about ordering a new set of gear legs but I really want someone out there to make a titanium set with the proper shape. You could add 50 more lbs to you useful load if we had titanium gear legs.

Not sure what I will try next, but I no longer worry about it and just let them shake when I land. I am switching out my brake lines for a braided line.
I will keep trying stuff and let you know when I find a fix.




Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com







From: Wyatt Prunty <wprunty(at)sewanee.edu>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 10:53:26 AM
Subject: vibration in mains on roll out

I have written about this once before and have talked with the factory several times. I have rebalanced the tires, changed to new and better tires (Customs) and dynamically balanced those plus checked for true roundness. I have balanced the wheel covers, have installed a new axel for the nose, a new nose strut (which brought the nose up and did help), and have installed a washer under the doenuts to raise the nose a bit more. I also installed new doenuts at 300 hours, have gone back to flying with 60lbs in the back if only one or two people are in the plane. I land with full flaps, flare with a little power in and stick all the way back, (on final, the plane feels like a balloon, or the hand of God sustaining you), but after touch-down and just as the speed goes under 40mph on roll out the mains shutter. They shutter a lot if you apply the brakes, especially if you are rolling down hill when you apply the brakes. They shutter none or very little (now, after doing the above) if the day is calm enough for a full falp landing and you just hold the stick back and roll out. This seems the be an issue with the angle from which weight rests on the mains, and the change in that angle as the plane slows, also perhaps a loss of pressure on the elevator, letting the nose sink a little more. (I have checked the brakes repeatedly for wear and/or sticking and seen no signs of that.) The whole thing reminds me of being on a train when the brakes are applied and your chest and head are thrown forward, minus a few obvious differences . . . . Usually the train doesn't vibrate.





I still have a second washer that I could install to get a little more up attitude for the nose, which should retard dip in the nose, such dip seeming to coincide with the onset of vibration. Otherwise I am out of ideas, so write you guys.





Question: Anyone else had vibration in the mains upon roll out and/or braking? Given everything already done to address this vibration, is raising the nose a bit more in fact the next step? Wisdoms welcomed.





In all fairness I should add that this is the nicest flying plane I have encountered, though the RV 6-A is a complete angel too, and the 6 I have flown has no vibration on roll out. Both planes, of course, have round, tube-like struts similar to what I have seen on some Cessnas, dancing like Fred Astaire chasing Ginger Rogers down the runway.





Wyatt N814BW

Quote:

0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
Quote:
5
Quote:
6
Quote:
7
Quote:
8
Quote:
9
Quote:
0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3

[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rv10flyer



Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

The gear legs are flexing/twisting allowing camber and toe to change at a fast rate. I plan on stiffening mine with carbon fiber when the time comes. Back to empennage attachment.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Wayne G.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Do you have any data or video to support this? Just wondering how you came up with that cause.
Also, knowing that how would you use carbon fiber to stiffen the system? Do you change the moment of inertia or just make the tube larger?

Thanks

Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

From: rv10flyer <wayne.gillispie(at)yahoo.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, February 25, 2010 6:55:14 AM
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out


[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
rv10flyer



Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

One of Tony Bingelis' books mentions it. I found very little info on the net, but seems to be common on tapered rod gear due to the fore and aft movement. I plan on bonding a 1" x 1" carbon fiber angle to aft side of main gear legs just prior to installing fairings. I am hoping this will stiffen it and also keep it from twisting under torsional loads as much. I want to stick with the plans as much as possible. May make it a little rougher during taxi. I won't be ready for the gear until next summer, so maybe someone else can try this or something similiar before I get to it. You guys have tried everything else from the way it looks. I am so glad I decided on experimental. This is alot of fun. By the way Scott, your trips are a big motivator for me. Can't wait to fly the family out west.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Wayne G.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msausen



Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

So other than the vibration being annoying, and the potential for eventual fatigue issues, is anyone actually seeing any damage from this?

Michael

--


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
greghale



Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

DON,

I have not been able to find the Goodyear FC3 tires. Where did you purchase them? Also is the MICHELIN AIRSTOP TUBE what you used available from Aircraft Spruce?

Greg...


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:55 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

No, I have not noticed any problems.
I will replace my brake lines with braided hose to prevent fatigue in the aluminum line.
-Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2010, at 3:32 PM, "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:



So other than the vibration being annoying, and the potential for eventual fatigue issues, is anyone actually seeing any damage from this?

Michael

--


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Desser has both
Aircraft spruce sells the Goodyear tires. not sure about the michelins but
worth a look or a call. Just be sure you get the correct tire size.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:05 PM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out

Quote:


DON,

I have not been able to find the Goodyear FC3 tires. Where did you
purchase them? Also is the MICHELIN AIRSTOP TUBE what you used available
from Aircraft Spruce?

Greg...

--------
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288229#288229




- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Greg

I just got 2 6:00 6ply and 5:00 5 ply fc III tires with leak stop tubes and
the 5 in tube has the 90 degree bend in the air valve like the 10 needs at
dresser.com. and they came with free talc powder.



John

40864 emp assembly and Saratoga annual from hell
--


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
partner14



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

Greg, sorry for the abbreviation.... Goodyear Flight Custom III's... make sure you get 15X6.00X6. It is so nice to not have the vibration

--- On Thu, 2/25/10, greghale <ghale5224(at)aol.com> wrote:
Quote:

From: greghale <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 4:05 PM

--> RV10-List message posted by: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com (ghale5224(at)aol.com)>

DON,

I have not been able to find the Goodyear FC3 tires. Where did you purchase them? Also is the MICHELIN AIRSTOP TUBE what you used available from Aircraft Spruce?

Greg...

--------
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.sp; --> http://foru - List Contribution We   -Matt Dralle, List m/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


[quote][b]


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:59 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

I wish I understood why using the heaviest tire out there reduces the
vibration problem. Not to argue with results, just don't grasp the
physics.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Don McDonald
<building_partner(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:

Greg, sorry for the abbreviation.... Goodyear Flight Custom III's... make sure you get 15X6.00X6.   It is so nice to not have the vibration

--- On Thu, 2/25/10, greghale <ghale5224(at)aol.com> wrote:

From: greghale <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 4:05 PM



DON,

I have not been able to find the Goodyear FC3 tires.  Where did you purchase them?  Also is the  MICHELIN AIRSTOP TUBE what you used available from Aircraft Spruce?

Greg...

--------
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com


- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rv10flyer



Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

It may change the natural resonant frequency of the gear leg. Does it help or change the speed at which the vibration occurs when your landing at or near gross wt? If so, maybe for the same reason. I am going to make a note in the plans about the braided lines/fcIII tires. Thanks guys.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Wayne G.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: vibration in mains on roll out Reply with quote

maybe its the roundness of the tire combined with balancing? tires are built
differently, I know from my motorcycle that there is a big difference from
the OEM stock tires I had and the touring tires I bought, the feel and
smoothness was noticeable, maybe same situation with the Goodyears.
just a thought
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:56 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: vibration in mains on roll out

Quote:


I wish I understood why using the heaviest tire out there reduces the
vibration problem. Not to argue with results, just don't grasp the
physics.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Don McDonald
<building_partner(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Greg, sorry for the abbreviation.... Goodyear Flight Custom III's... make
> sure you get 15X6.00X6. It is so nice to not have the vibration
>
> --- On Thu, 2/25/10, greghale <ghale5224(at)aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: greghale <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: vibration in mains on roll out
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 4:05 PM
>
>
>
> DON,
>
> I have not been able to find the Goodyear FC3 tires. Where did you
> purchase them? Also is the MICHELIN AIRSTOP TUBE what you used
> available from Aircraft Spruce?
>
> Greg...
>
> --------
> Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
> www.nwacaptain.com





- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group