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Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas
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vectorwarbirds(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

FYI:

 

 As you may know we have been running Mogas in our CJs for over fifteen years now in three birds.  On my trip to Sun N Fun in 08 I targeted and purchased fuel from only Mogas airports coming and going.  By the time I got back I had saved over $750.00 in fuel costs by not using 100LL.  That paid for my hotel room and food for the entire trip.  And just to reiterate, we have not had one single problem running Mogas, in fact just the opposite, they run better, spark plugs last longer and we are saving a ton of money.  My fuel tank meter on my truck fueler shows 5400 gallons of Mogas going into my CJ, you do the math in savings.  And that does not include buying it at Mogas airports.  

 

 Anyway I will be doing the same thing this trip, and I suspect I will save even more than before.  There are literally hundreds of Mogas airports back East, few and far between out West.  Winterhaven KGIF right by Lakeland has a Mogas pump and it is currently $3.30.  Thats where I fuel when at Sun N Fun.

 

 Tally Ho!

 

 TGB

 

 

 

   

 

  

   [quote][b]

mbeach(at)hartwigs.com.au
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Just a quick question on the Mogas, do you use Premium or standard unleaded fuel.   

   

   

   

REGARDS   

   

MICHAEL BEACH  

     

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com

 Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2010 2:10 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas  

  

     

FYI:

 

 As you may know we have been running Mogas in our CJs for over fifteen years now in three birds.  On my trip to Sun N Fun in 08 I targeted and purchased fuel from only Mogas airports coming and going.  By the time I got back I had saved over $750.00 in fuel costs by not using 100LL.  That paid for my hotel room and food for the entire trip.  And just to reiterate, we have not had one single problem running Mogas, in fact just the opposite, they run better, spark plugs last longer and we are saving a ton of money.  My fuel tank meter on my truck fueler shows 5400 gallons of Mogas going into my CJ, you do the math in savings.  And that does not include buying it at Mogas airports.  

 

 Anyway I will be doing the same thing this trip, and I suspect I will save even more than before.  There are literally hundreds of Mogas airports back East, few and far between out West.  Winterhaven KGIF right by Lakeland has a Mogas pump and it is currently $3.30.  Thats where I fuel when at Sun N Fun.

 

 Tally Ho!

 

 TGB

 

   

    

   

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ph451(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Is it ethanol free?

   From: Michael Beach <mbeach(at)hartwigs.com.au>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 9:46:28 PM

Subject: RE: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Just a quick question on the Mogas, do you use Premium or standard unleaded fuel.  

REGARDS  

MICHAEL BEACH 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com

Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2010 2:10 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

FYI:

As you may know we have been running Mogas in our CJs for over fifteen years now in three birds.  On my trip to Sun N Fun in 08 I targeted and purchased fuel from only Mogas airports coming and going.  By the time I got back I had saved over $750.00 in fuel costs by not using 100LL.  That paid for my hotel room and food for the entire trip.  And just to reiterate, we have not had one single problem running Mogas, in fact just the opposite, they run better, spark plugs last longer and we are saving a ton of money.  My fuel tank meter on my truck fueler shows 5400 gallons of Mogas going into my CJ, you do the math in savings.  And that does not include buying it at Mogas airports.  

Anyway I will be doing the same thing this trip, and I suspect I will save even more than before.  There are literally  hundreds of Mogas airports back East, few and far between out West.  Winterhaven KGIF right by Lakeland has a Mogas pump and it is currently $3.30.  Thats where I fuel when at Sun N Fun.

Tally Ho!

TGB

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f16ftrplt(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:22 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Is the the Gas without Ethanol and how do you find airports with MoGas?

Thanks

Med

On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:09 PM, vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   FYI:



 As you may know we have been running Mogas in our CJs for over  

 fifteen years now in three birds.  On my trip to Sun N Fun in 08 I  

 targeted and purchased fuel from only Mogas airports coming and  

 going.  By the time I got back I had saved over $750.00 in fuel  

 costs by not using 100LL.  That paid for my hotel room and food for  

 the entire trip.  And just to reiterate, we have not had one single  

 problem running Mogas, in fact just the opposite, they run better,  

 spark plugs last longer and we are saving a ton of money.  My fuel  

 tank meter on my truck fueler shows 5400 gallons of Mogas going into  

 my CJ, you do the math in savings.  And that does not include buying  

 it at Mogas airports.



 Anyway I will be doing the same thing this trip, and I suspect I  

 will save even more than before.  There are literally hundreds of  

 Mogas airports back East, few and far between out West.  Winterhaven  

 KGIF right by Lakeland has a Mogas pump and it is currently $3.30.   

 Thats where I fuel when at Sun N Fun.



 Tally Ho!



 TGB

N642K

Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 84

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

(I'm no expert on mogas but) I have noticed that when I search for the best gas prices in the area or on a cross country, Airnav.com has an option to check for mogas.



Airnav saves me $$$ every trip.

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

I'm assuming that people use 93 or whatever the highest octane available might be. Is even that high enough for a supercharged, albeit low compression engine like the M-14P? Is there spalling or seal dissolution from the up to 10% of ethanol that the high octane car fuels usually have, or is any ethanol a no-no? What about winter/summer formulations (I'm in the Northeast)? Any necessary additives like TCP or MMO? Also, does the MoGas gum things up the way 100LL doesn't? If it does, would that be no problem if you ran some 100LL through there occasionally?



My Yak-52 manual makes no mention of this being an acceptable substitute, but of course, I want to have some things worked out at such time that 100LL can't be had anymore.  For EE purposes, no STC is called for, right?

On Mar 3, 2010, at 10:46 PM, Michael Beach wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Just a quick question on the Mogas, do you use Premium or standard unleaded fuel.

 

 

 

REGARDS

 

MICHAEL BEACH

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com (vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com)

Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2010 2:10 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas



 



FYI:



As you may know we have been running Mogas in our CJs for over fifteen years now in three birds.  On my trip to Sun N Fun in 08 I targeted and purchased fuel from only Mogas airports coming and going.  By the time I got back I had saved over $750.00 in fuel costs by not using 100LL.  That paid for my hotel room and food for the entire trip.  And just to reiterate, we have not had one single problem running Mogas, in fact just the opposite, they run better, spark plugs last longer and we are saving a ton of money.  My fuel tank meter on my truck fueler shows 5400 gallons of Mogas going into my CJ, you do the math in savings.  And that does not include buying it at Mogas airports.  



Anyway I will be doing the same thing this trip, and I suspect I will save even more than before.  There are literally hundreds of Mogas airports back East, few and far between out West.  Winterhaven KGIF right by Lakeland has a Mogas pump and it is currently $3.30.  Thats where I fuel when at Sun N Fun.



Tally Ho!



TGB

 



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n4829t(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Fwiw.... I have been burning mogas for the better part of ten years in my 62 CJ.... I remember reading,somewhere in the manual,that the min. Chinese octane approved was around 63.  That being said, I have used sludge grade 87 and never had a problem until they decided to water down the fuel with ethenol. I did notice my primer became stiff... Assuming the seals swelled due the the ethenol. I stopped using straight mogas and mix it 50-50 with 100ll and have no problems. I do used MMO in everything. 800 hours on mogas. Just my experience. 



Jim P.

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



--

vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

We have always used 87 octane, the lowest grade.

 

 TGB

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

As I said some is and some isn't.  Never a problem for us.  If you Google "Airports with mogas" you will find a complete list.

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

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vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.  Pretty much now it all runs about 5 to 8% ethanol per our fuel tester.  We have done all the soak tests on the rubber with no problems occurring.  

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

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vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Well as I said we run 87 octane, the lowest grade.  The CJ was made to run low grade fuel.  Now the M-14P is a different story.  You are developing 360 HP to our 285 from basically the same engine.  But given that we have run high test in the Yak 18T for some time with no problems.  We add nothing to the fuel, it runs cleaner in all respects.  

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

Noplugs

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 35
Location: Houston, TX

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Octane is just an Anti-Knock number, but also plays a role with high altitude. But to add some food for thought 87 Octane has 125000 Btuâ€™s/Gal compared to 100LLâ€™s 120200 Btuâ€™s/Gal.  So a gallon of 87 Octane can produce 4800 more BTUâ€™s, in other words it can do more work per gallon (translates to more HP). 

In a high compression engine or High pressure boosted engines need the higher Octane to prevent pre-detonation of the fuel/air mix which will stress the engine even destroy it? Octane also plays a role in preventing the fuel to boil off at high altitude and can cause vapor lock.

Now does the CJ need 100LL? I real doubt it because even with its blower it still does not develop high compression and normal flight altitudes we fly would not cause vapor lock. As for alcohol blended fuels, itâ€™s a No-No for one of many reasons; the rubber parts in the fuel system will deteriorate.

talew(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

When able , I use marine fuel in myÂ CJ because in Fl. it doesn't have ethanol and itÂ  has a stabilizer so it doesn't go bad from sitting .

Marinas don't use fuel with ethanol because it will eat fiberglass fuel tanks and some rubber parts.

Terry



---

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

I wonder if we can get that stuff up North. Probably not off-season,  

anyway.

On Mar 4, 2010, at 1:07 PM, T A LEWIS wrote:



[quote] 



 When able , I use marine fuel in my CJ because in Fl. it doesn't  

 have ethanol and it  has a stabilizer so it doesn't go bad from  

 sitting .

 Marinas don't use fuel with ethanol because it will eat fiberglass  

 fuel tanks and some rubber parts.

 Terry



 ---

barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Guys,



This is a good thread and I appreciate Bundinni's input.  I have also run MoGas in both the Housai (low test) and M14P (high test) without any issues over extended periods.  I do mix in 100LL for the lead "lubrication", but Gary's experience seems to suggest that may not even be necessary.



As for the specs....again, this information is in the manuals.  We shouldn't be relying on information from the list, as valuable as it can be, when it comes to the operating specs on the airplane.  Your checkout should have included a thorough systems briefing that included things like "what is the minimum octane rating for your engine", etc.  



We got nearly a foot of snow here in Utah last night...good day to review the books...Speaking of which, has everyone turned in their program letters?

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine Stabil.



http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula



Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always use 2oz  of MMO per 5 gal as well



Thoughts?



Keith

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Nice that it fights the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, but of course  

that doesn't keep it from eating seals, etc.  Also, is spalling also  

an issue with ethanol? Apparently, the guys who use MoGas never use a  

version with ethanol, but I think that there can be a certain amount  

(<10%?) before they have to tell you about it. Around here (NE), it  

seems to always have it.



MMO seems to at least be harmless. Not sure about that "vapor blast"  

thing that supposed to be happening. I know it's been used forever,  

but I'm not sanguine about something that has the word "mystery" in  

it's name.



I worry about improvising things as long as the approved fuels are  

available. Of course, I appreciate the research and anecdotal reports,  

considering the likely demise of 100LL.

On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:36 AM, keithmckinley wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 A consideration for Mogas containing ethanol might be to use Marine  

 Stabil.



 http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula



 Comes out to about 6 cents per gallon to treat your fuel. I always  

 use 2oz  of MMO per 5 gal as well



 Thoughts?



 Keith



 --------

 Keith McKinley

 700HS

 KFIT





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289767#289767

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Radio,



I sent you a PM with some info on Mogas in northern NEw England. Don;t know where you are.



Keith

vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Gentlemen,

 

 If you will take some time to research the web concerning running ethanol in aircraft you might find out the same thing we did.  That almost 100% of aircraft hoses made in the last 15 years are alcohol proof.  Our long term testing on CJ rubber produced zero effects.  Thats a year soaking in it by the way.  There are many university studies and many US aircraft flying on it. even P&W 985's in AG service.  I believe its a lot easier and safer to research the smartest people in the USA doing the research and try and understand their findings instead of just a bunch of opinions on the List.  Mine included.  You probably know as well as I do that 100LL has been just a way to fleece the aviation world for years now, or why would the FAA issue STC's for using mogas in many US aircraft for so many years?  

 

 But in the final analysis eariler we have been running mogas with and without E10 for years now in three CJs and one Yak 18T, not one single problem ever.  But as I said do some research for yourself.

 

 TGB

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Nanchangs, Sun N Fun and Mogas

Gary,



with your experience I have a couple questions:



If you were letting the plane sit for longer than a month (as I do in winter in New England) would you use any type of fuel stabilizer



Do you use any additives, such as MMO. I use mmo  all the time and swear I can tell when It's not in my fuel.

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