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Aileron balance weights
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rmacpunk(at)netzero.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Has anyone put in an inspection panel to access the  balance weights? My wing is not painted yet and don't wish to paint with the  ailerons attached. Possible panel under weights or in lower wing tip.  Ideas?    Bob

   [quote][b]

bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Haven't finished the upgrade yet (working on it) but was planning on an inspection panel same as under the bellcrank.

 

Bill Pagan 

 



 

   From: Bob McArdle <rmacpunk(at)netzero.net>

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 9:25:01 AM

Subject: Aileron balance weights



   Has anyone put in an inspection panel to access the balance weights? My wing is not painted yet and don't wish to paint with the ailerons attached. Possible panel under weights or in lower wing tip. Ideas?    Bob

[quote][b][b]

countzero

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

Is there a reason why lead could not be used for the balance weight? It looks like a smaller lead weight could be extracted through the hole in the aft spar without removing the balance arm.



Rob

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Good God, man, have you lost your mind? Lead weights, just because they'd be smaller than steel ones? Don't you know that lead is EVIL?  The EPA  goes to great lengths to protect us from us, outlawing lead in gasoline, making pilots use 100 -low-lead, even so far as requiring handymen, remodelers and other such professions to go to training classes before they work on any house built before 1975 because they might have lead based paint in them. California has protected us from us by outlawing lead balance weights on cars. And you want to fly through the air, spreading your evil lead molecules over the peaceful bunnies, and Bambi, and itty bitty children? You fiend! Someone should report you to the Society For The Protection of Political Correctness before you go rampaging through our delicate planet, plotting who-knows-what. There's no telling what might happen if that lead weight were to fall off your plane, and bounce off an elementary school before sliding down a sidewalk in front of a convent, and ending up in a pond. That lead weight might leach out its lead into the aquifer, and might poison millions of people.    Somebody stop this man before he digs an oil well or builds a coal-fired electrical plant!!!  It's bad enough that Cessna, Beech and Piper use lead balance weights, now he wants to contaminate a Zenith.  Oh, the humanity.............

  

  

 (Obviously, I don't have much to do today.)

 Yeah, it would work pretty good.

 

 Paul R

  

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

 From: robyboy(at)hotmail.com

 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 05:48:46 -0800

 To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "countzero" <robyboy(at)hotmail.com>

 

 Is there a reason why lead could not be used for the balance weight? It looks like a smaller lead weight could be extracted through the hole in the aft spar without removing the balance arm.

 

 Rob

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289622#289622

 

 

 

&gt
	


[quote] 

 

 

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

Bob,



I made wingtip inspection panels when I originally built my 601 to access the strobe packs.  I guess I will be able to also get to the counter-weight bolts to remove ailerons.



Dave

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David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Best note that I've read on here for quite a  while!!

    [quote][b]

pbaker4(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

I used lead on the inside of the tube to a depth of  about 6 inches, then it only took a couple of plates to completely   

 balance the control. then I widened the opening in  the rear

 spar just a little bit. now if needed I can simply  slide the 

 balance tube with weights on, no need for an  inspection

 plate. The wings are on and everything is hooked up  .I will

 be flying this week after a final weight and  balance is done.

  

 paul baker 601xl  "the T  model"

   [quote][b]

LHusky

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Paul, I would not mind seeing some pictures of that setup.  Very  Interesting

  

 Larry Husky 

 Madras, Oregon

  

  In a message dated 3/9/2010 5:13:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  pbaker4(at)windstream.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I used lead on the inside of the tube to a depth    of about 6 inches, then it only took a couple of plates to completely     

   balance the control. then I widened the opening    in the rear

   spar just a little bit. now if needed I can    simply slide the 

   balance tube with weights on, no need for an    inspection

   plate. The wings are on and everything is hooked    up .I will

   be flying this week after a final weight and    balance is done.

    

   paul baker 601xl  "the T model"

 	  Quote: 	
		  



====================================

t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

====================================

ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

====================================

tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	
	


  [quote][b]

bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

I see Paul signs his email with "The T model"

 Was it ever officially decided what the "upgraded" 601's would be designated as?  Don't recall seeing any final tally after we had the chance to vote.

 

Bill Pagan 

 



 

   From: paul baker <pbaker4(at)windstream.net>

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 8:12:52 AM

Subject: Re: Aileron balance weights



   I used lead on the inside of the tube to a depth of about 6 inches, then it only took a couple of plates to completely  

 balance the control. then I widened the opening in the rear

 spar just a little bit. now if needed I can simply slide the 

 balance tube with weights on, no need for an inspection

 plate. The wings are on and everything is hooked up .I will

 be flying this week after a final weight and balance is done.

  

 paul baker 601xl  "the T model"

[b]

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Interesting question, Bill, far as I know there hasn't been an announcement.  I would think the simplest thing would be  to call it a 601XL-B, in keeping with other manufacturers' model series.

  

 Paul R

 

  Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 06:40:14 -0800

From: bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com

Subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com



  .ExternalClass DIV {;}    

 I see Paul signs his email with "The T model"

 Was it ever officially decided what the "upgraded" 601's would be designated as?  Don't recall seeing any final tally after we had the chance to vote.

 

Bill Pagan 

 



 

   From: paul baker <pbaker4(at)windstream.net>

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 8:12:52 AM

Subject: Re: Aileron balance weights



    I used lead on the inside of the tube to a depth of about 6 inches, then it only took a couple of plates to completely  

 balance the control. then I widened the opening in the rear

 spar just a little bit. now if needed I can simply slide the 

 balance tube with weights on, no need for an inspection

 plate. The wings are on and everything is hooked up .I will

 be flying this week after a final weight and balance is done.

  

 paul baker 601xl  "the T model"

[/b][quote]



st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

ronics.com

ww.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

Louie928

Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Mosier, OR USA

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

I did put an access hole under the aileron balance weights. It is 110mm x 220mm which is large enough for me to remove the weights to install or remove the weights. Also, a good idea to use lead and fewer plates so they can fit through a larger hole in the rear spar. Maybe a doubler around the larger hole would be advisable.

Aileron balance access.jpg

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Louis W. Ott

601XL-B Corvair

dalemed

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

 	  pbaker4(at)windstream.net wrote: 	
		  I used lead on the inside of the tube to a depth of  about 6 inches, then it only took a couple of plates to completely   

 balance the control. then I widened the opening in  the rear

 spar just a little bit. now if needed I can simply  slide the 

 balance tube with weights on, no need for an  inspection

 plate. The wings are on and everything is hooked up  .I will

 be flying this week after a final weight and  balance is done.

	




I was thinking of a similar approach but hadn't thought about putting lead inside the square tube.  How did you do that?

_________________
Dale
Zenith Zodiac CH650

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Lead has a very low melting point. I recall as a kid melting some old lead

plumbing fittings on a Coleman stove. But I would try hard to avoid any

fumes.



-- Craig 



--

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:36 am Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Hi guys,



I used to make, and sell, lead bullets in days gone by . . .



Lead melts around 700 degrees F.  This is easily done on any kitchen stove

using a cast iron pan.  I don't think it creates any vapor at temperatures

you can make with normal equipment so the fumes are not a problem.



On the other hand, if you get your lead from the junk yard it is covered

with all sorts of stuff that will create an unpleasant aroma when heated to

700 degrees.



Don't use an aluminum pot for this - it will melt and damage your stove.

Aluminum melts under 1000 degrees F.  



For comparison, steel melts around 2000 degrees, and iron around 5000.



I wouldn't worry about melting the aluminum tube when pouring lead into it

since you will do this at close to 700 degrees.  If you already have a bolt

or pin going thru the middle of the tube the lead will be held in place when

it hardens.



On my first aileron I only needed 4 of the steel plates to balance the whole

thing.  This might be equivalent to a very small amount of lead.  The

problem I see with the lead weights is mostly figuring out how much lead to

use before pouring it.



Good luck,



Paul

XL - installing upgrade kit



--

Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

On Wednesday 10 March 2010 13:36:57 you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi guys,

 

 I used to make, and sell, lead bullets in days gone by . . .

<snip>
	


The thing I do remember about lead is that it not only melts easily, it's easy 

to spill. Boy, does it burn when it hits the skin!

-- 

========================================

                                       Jim B. Belcher

                                       BS,MS Physics

                                            A&P/IA

                      General Radio Telephone Certificate

                               Instrument Rated Pilot

                     Retired Aerospace Technical Manager

                         Semi-proficient Househusband

========================================

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

do not archive



" The problem I see with the lead weights is mostly figuring out how much 

lead to use before pouring it."



Maybe this will help:



Steel weighs .283 Lbs per cubic inch



Brass weighs .307 lbs. per cubic inch



Lead weighs .409 lbs. per cubic inch



Need a trick to remember this?



Note all weights are Chevy engine displacements!



Regards,



Randy, Las Vegas

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron balance weights

Where do you buy lead these days...?



Patrick

N63PZ

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

How about buying some lead shot at the gunsmith's and moulding it in epoxy 

to the required shape.

Dave Austin

scottbevier

Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 8

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Bass Pro, and similar stores have all the lead you'll need.



Scott Bevier

601XL



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: Aileron balance weights

Spruce sells "aviation grade" 1/8th inch lead sheet 



-- Craig 



--

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