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Ask the Dar

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dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: Ask the Dar

Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a  future switch to the HD wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the  procedure so I sent a note to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his  answer. (He sent me a personal reply, which I appreciate).

 Regards,

 Damien

 ---

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Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Ask the Dar

Damien,



Where is the letter from the DAR?  It didn't come up on the web forum.

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

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_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: Ask the Dar

Ron:

I don't know what happened. I will try to forward it again.

Regards,

Damien

DO NOT ARCHIVE.

---

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dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: Ask the Dar

---

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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: Ask the Dar

Hi Damien,  

   

I'm sure the Mel is correct with regard to the actual rules.  

   

On the other hand, if you happen across a CH601HD it might be impossible to discover that once apon a time it had HDS wings on it.  Also, some folks seem to think an HDS actually meets the LSA definition.  It is mostly a matter of the stall speed which might be considerably different from one home-built plane to another.  

   

This is just one example of many I have run across where the new rules are both unfathomable and a bit ridiculous.  I think the intent was to keep people from "Pencil whipping" planes (like C-140s) that are a bit above the LSA definition to change them to just within the specs.  This is just one of those things that makes a lot of sense to a government bureaucrat but is crazy to a normal person.  

   

Good luck,  

   

Paul  

XL installing upgrade  

       

From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Damien

 Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:54 PM

 To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Fw: Ask the Dar  

  

  

     

Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the HD wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a note to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He sent me a personal reply, which I appreciate).  

    

Regards,  

    

Damien  

    

----- Original Message -----     

From: Asberry (n168tx(at)flytx.net)   

    

To: dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com (dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com)   

    

Cc: Marc Cook (marc(at)kitplanes.com)   

    

Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM  

    

Subject: Re: Ask the Dar  

  

    

   

    

First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If the aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport pilot regardless of its classification.  

    

   

    

To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This could be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.  

    

   

    

However in you case this would not solve your problem as the light-sport rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met light-sport parameters from it's original certification. Since you aircraft has been certificated and flying with flight characteristics outside of light-sport rules, it could never qualify as being "light-sport compliant."  

    

   

    

Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.  

    

   

    

Mel  

    

972-784-7544  

  [quote]    

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Marc Cook (marc(at)kitplanes.com)   

    

To: Mel Asberry (n168tx(at)flytx.net)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM  

    

Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar  

  [b]

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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naumuk(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: Ask the Dar

Damien-

     What you're going through has  been revisited a couple of times a year on this and other lists. 

     An HDS will absolutely qualify  Light Sport using VGs ,and in many cases without. Additionally, an HD absolutely  qualifies to begin with. The sticking point is, either  configuration has to meet LS requirements AT THE TIME the  AC is issued. 

     My hypothesis is, HDS and  other models have been happily putting along LS legal since long before the  requirements were finalized. However, since early builders didn't have  a specific stall speed goal to shoot for, they were sloppy about what they  entered into their operation manuals and unknowingly killed half the utility and  resale value of their aircraft. It's sad there is no way correct the mistake  retroactively, but ....

                                                                                              Bill

 [quote]   ---

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

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floyd wilkes

Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 39
Location: spring branch, tx

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: Ask the Dar

I do not recall anyone but me ever seeing my ops manual and it get revised as needed.  

   

Floyd Wilkes  

601XL hopefully mod finished tomorrow and flying again!!  

       

From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk

 Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:16 PM

 To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Fw: Ask the Dar  

  

  

     

Damien-  

    

    What you're going through has been revisited a couple of times a year on this and other lists.   

    

    An HDS will absolutely qualify Light Sport using VGs ,and in many cases without. Additionally, an HD absolutely qualifies to begin with. The sticking point is, either configuration has to meet LS requirements AT THE TIME the AC is issued.   

    

    My hypothesis is, HDS and other models have been happily putting along LS legal since long before the requirements were finalized. However, since early builders didn't have a specific stall speed goal to shoot for, they were sloppy about what they entered into their operation manuals and unknowingly killed half the utility and resale value of their aircraft. It's sad there is no way correct the mistake retroactively, but ....  

    

                                                                                             Bill  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Damien (dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM)   

    

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:54 PM  

    

Subject: Fw: Ask the Dar  

    

   

    

Hey guys, I own a 601 HDS and I was considering a future switch to the HD wings and then flying LSA. I wanted to know the procedure so I sent a note to the "Ask the DAR" column at Kitplanes. Here is his answer. (He sent me a personal reply, which I appreciate).  

    

Regards,  

    

Damien  

    

----- Original Message -----     

From: Asberry (n168tx(at)flytx.net)   

    

To: dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com (dgraham7(at)twcny.rr.com)   

    

Cc: Marc Cook (marc(at)kitplanes.com)   

    

Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:03 PM  

    

Subject: Re: Ask the Dar  

  

    

   

    

First off, you can never "recertify" an aircraft to make it LSA. If the aircraft meets light-sport parameters, it may be flown by a sport pilot regardless of its classification.  

    

   

    

To change the wings on your aircraft would require a model change by amending the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. This could be done by either the FAA or a DAR holding function code 33.  

    

   

    

However in you case this would not solve your problem as the light-sport rules require that the aircraft must have continuously met light-sport parameters from it's original certification. Since you aircraft has been certificated and flying with flight characteristics outside of light-sport rules, it could never qualify as being "light-sport compliant."  

    

   

    

Sorry, I know this is not the answer you're looking for.  

    

   

    

Mel  

    

972-784-7544  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Marc Cook (marc(at)kitplanes.com)   

    

To: Mel Asberry (n168tx(at)flytx.net)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:12 PM  

    

Subject: Fwd: Ask the Dar  

    

   

  

     

     

Begin forwarded message:  

  



 

       

From: "Damien" <>  

    

Date: March 23, 2010 6:15:01 PM PDT  

    

To: <editorial(at)kitplanes.com (editorial(at)kitplanes.com)>  

    

Subject: Ask the Dar  

    

   

  

      

Hello. I own a Zodiac 601 HDS. I am not the builder. The 601 HDS does not qualify as LSA because of the high stall speed. I would add the HD wings, which does qualify for LSA. Would I have to recertify the plane to make it LSA? Does the plane need to be inspected again?  

    

   

  

  

  

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_________________
Floyd Wilkes

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