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Matco brakes

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: Matco brakes

Dave,

  Actually my brakes work reasonably well. They will hold fine for the runup.My problems occur when I make a turn. The Maule tailwheel unlocks too easily and full braking is not enough on one wheel to counteract the turn. I end up stuck with the tailwheel 90 degrees to the direction I want to go. More engine power only ends up pushing me the wrong way. Sometimes I have to get out of the airplane and straighten the tailwheel. I can mash the brake to the floor and this still does not help.Manytimes I just do a circle in the wrong direction in order to end up headed the way I want to go (if this makes any sense)

  I think the problem is a combination of, weak brakes, too easily unlockable tailwheel,fat tires (although the beer is GREAT !) and grass. I don't have too much of a problem on pavement.

                                                        Dick Maddux

                                                        Fox 4

                                                        Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:37 am Post subject: Matco brakes

Dick, I don't what to tell you about the Matcos other than possibly install  new pads.  Often, if the pads don't get broken in properly they will glaze  over and not have full braking potential.  

 As for the tailwheel unlocking too easily, all you need to do is loosen the  springs a little bit.  I don't mean give them a bunch of slack, just not so  tight.  The tighter they are the quicker it will unlock.  It's all in  the geometry of the cam.  Experiment a bit and you'll see what I  mean.

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

Previously  Model 2 582 400 Hrs

"If you put the federal government in charge of the  Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel  prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)

  

 [quote]   ---

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Matco brakes

Hi Dick,



If they worked well before this issue then you should be able to save them if it is only a glazing issue. 



You are right to want the brake to be able to lock down when you need it. Take the Matco disc off and de-glaze it with some 360 sandpaper. Don't be afraid to do a good sanding job. If the pads are worn down quite a bit then get new ones. If they aren't and they are just glazed over then you can try to ruff them back up a little and break them back in. Use some 220 sandpaper on them. If this doesn't work then it look like new pads are in your future. I have Matco's on my plane and can lock them down with the parking brake and run my engine at full rpm and they will hold without any creeping. I have installed 30 odd some sets of Matco brakes on CT's alone and I'm an OEM dealer for Matco. If you need a set or parts let me know I can get you a better price. They will work if broken in correctly at the start of their life, but like any brake they can get over heated and glazed, but this can be fixed.



The other thing that effects brake pressure is the angle and setup of the master cylinder. Smaller brake line ID is better than larger. 1/8 ID is better than 1/4 ID. It takes less fluid volume and master cylinder travel to give higher pressures with smaller line than larger ID brake line.

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: Matco brakes

At 04:52 AM 3/8/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The Maule tailwheel unlocks too easily and full braking is not 

enough on one wheel to counteract the turn. I end up stuck with the 

tailwheel 90 degrees to the direction I want to go. More engine 

power only ends up pushing me the wrong way. Sometimes I have to get 

out of the airplane and straighten the tailwheel. I can mash the 

brake to the floor and this still does not help.


	


I don't think even good brakes (which I have) are useful to overcome 

an inconvenient tailwheel. There's just too much leverage 

differential. If I find the tailwheel inconveniently oriented I 

generally correct with lots of power, even full power. The IV's 

rudder and elevator are large enough that a big blast of power with 

the stick forward and full rudder generally corrects any tailwheel 

orientation without much forward travel. Of course you must be aware 

of what's behind you, and if power would be inconsiderate the only 

thing you can do is get out and muscle it around.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Manytimes I just do a circle in the wrong direction in order to end 

up headed the way I want to go (if this makes any sense)


	


I do that too; sometimes even on the runway. 

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: Matco brakes

About the Maul tailwheel.  You have to adjust it...  The tail wheel should not unlock when the rudder hits the stops, grind whatever on the assembly  to make that happen.   Then, when the tailwheel hits the stops, it has to compress the spring to release.  Do this and you will have no problem.

 Clint

[quote] Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:10:57 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 From: bnn(at)nethere.com

 Subject: Re: Matco brakes

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

 At 04:52 AM 3/8/2010, you wrote:

 >The Maule tailwheel unlocks too easily and full braking is not 

 >enough on one wheel to counteract the turn. I end up stuck with the 

 >tailwheel 90 degrees to the direction I want to go. More engine 

 >power only ends up pushing me the wrong way. Sometimes I have to get 

 >out of the airplane and straighten the tailwheel. I can mash the 

 >brake to the floor and this still does not help.

 I don't think even good brakes (which I have) are useful to overcome 

 an inconvenient tailwheel. There's just too much leverage 

 differential. If I find the tailwheel inconveniently oriented I 

 generally correct with lots of power, even full power. The IV's 

 rudder and elevator are large enough that a big blast of power with 

 the stick forward and full rudder generally corrects any tailwheel 

 orientation without much forward travel. Of course you must be aware 

 of what's behind you, and if power would be inconsiderate the only 

 thing you can do is get out and muscle it around.

 >Manytimes I just do a circle in the wrong direction in order to end 

 >up headed the way I want to go (if this makes any sense)

 I do that too; sometimes even on the runway. 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and coun========================> 

 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Matco brakes

 	  Guy Buchanan wrote: 	
		  At 04:52 AM 3/8/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The Maule tailwheel unlocks too easily and full braking is not 

enough on one wheel to counteract the turn. I end up stuck with the 

tailwheel 90 degrees to the direction I want to go. More engine 

power only ends up pushing me the wrong way. Sometimes I have to get 

out of the airplane and straighten the tailwheel. I can mash the 

brake to the floor and this still does not help.



	


I don't think even good brakes (which I have) are useful to overcome 

an inconvenient tailwheel. There's just too much leverage 

differential. If I find the tailwheel inconveniently oriented I 

generally correct with lots of power, even full power. The IV's 

rudder and elevator are large enough that a big blast of power with 

the stick forward and full rudder generally corrects any tailwheel 

orientation without much forward travel. Of course you must be aware 

of what's behind you, and if power would be inconsiderate the only 

thing you can do is get out and muscle it around.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Manytimes I just do a circle in the wrong direction in order to end 

up headed the way I want to go (if this makes any sense)



	


I do that too; sometimes even on the runway. 

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting 	


Lots of guys up here don't run any springs on the tail wheel of cubs.  All turning is done with braking and power.  I tend to use my brakes a bit more than rudder on the ground work too.

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Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
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IVO IFA
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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Matco brakes

Dick, 



Sounds to me that you have tailwheel issues if you  brake hold on full power run up.  

Keep your tailwheel lubed well and take apart and make sure the notch is still got square edges rr it will break way too easy.  But you brakes should still be able to turn you.  

My Aerocet amphibs use  to be hard to turn as well until  I re-designed the nose gear pivots and made them rotate freely from any position. 



The tailwheel Kitfox should be very easy to turn once  it breaks free and you should be able to easily change direction with brakes.



ALso -if the calipers do not slide easily then braking diminishes.



MOre ski flying here and a search and rescue from a kitfox   LOL for a busted ski doo.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps7u_-LlEl4

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: Matco brakes

Thanks for all the tips guys! I will work on my tailwheel and the brakes. I have the 1/8 inch line that Roger was talking about but was not sure it would really help. If it does, then I will proceed with that work and double check my discs/pads which appeared to be OK during my recent annual.

  Right now, I am taking advantage of the good weather (which doesn't last long) to fly my airplane.

  I just bought an MGL clock/timer/OAT to stick in the open hole left by my Northstar F 210 that crapped out again a couple of months ago. I have gone thru two transducers in less than 50 hrs flying time. I am somewhat tempted to try it for a third time because I liked having it but I know it is totally illogical as it would probably break again. I had it mounted above my gascolater in the engine compartment. I think the heat got to it. I had it wrapped with heat reflective cloth but it's home was about 4 inches from the muffler. Other than the heat it was in a perfect spot and I really don't have another place to put it without bugering up the nice fuel plumbing system I have in my airplane. Has anyone run it in a horizontal position and have it last? I could do that.

 I know one thing, with the rotor jammed in the transducer, it still feeds fuel fine. Both of my failed transponders had a jammed rotor.

  HHmmmm..lets see, I have a 2 inch hole in my panel for the Northstar and it will be a pain to enlarge it to 2 1/4 for the clock. Maybe I will cut a 2 1/4 inch hole next to it for the clock and try the Northstar again. Anyone know where to get a Northstar transponder cheap? Just thinking.

                                                           Dick Maddux

                                                           Fox 4

                                                           912 UL

                                                           Milton,Fl

  [quote][b]

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: Matco brakes

Dave,

  Thanks for the good info! I will get to work on that tailwheel and see if I can get the break away issue taken care of. I too think that is my major problem.

                                                           Dick Maddux

                                                           Milton,Fl

  

 Do not archive

  [quote][b]

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