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New alternate engine on my MKIII
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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

Well itâ€™s a long story but I will try to make it short.  

   

A couple of years ago I finished my MKIII with an BMW R100 (air cooled) engine on it.  After flying it about 50 hours over the last year and a half, I decided that it was not going to provide the power and reliability I demanded.  I could climb at about 800â€™/min but fast cruise was 60mph.  I also had teething problems that required me to work on it a lot.  There have been other successful conversions of this engine but I decided it was not for me.  

   

A couple of weeks ago I finished the installation of a 2005 Yamaha Vector snowmobile engine with a Rotax 3.47 gearbox.  I now have about 5 hours on it and am ready to say that this engine just might provide me with the performance I was looking for.  My rates of climb are in 1000â€™/min range at 1000# gross and I can wind the airplane up to 90mph at full throttle in level flight.  I have chosen 70mph as my cruise as that is what feels good with my airplane.  Only time will tell about the reliability but I do have a good feeling about this engine.  Below is a link to a Utube video of the engine on the airplane.  

   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Tlg9RMKx8  

   

Jason Omelchuck  

Kolb MKIII Yamaha powered  

Portland, OR  

       [quote][b]

Last edited by Jason Omelchuck on Sun May 16, 2010 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

Tell us about the engine.  Most of us southern  boys don't have much knowledge of snow machines.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    A couple of weeks ago I finished the    installation of a 2005 Yamaha Vector snowmobile engine with a Rotax 3.47    gearbox.   

    

      

Jason Omelchuck   

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

The 2005 Yamaha Vector Snowmobile engine is a liquid cooled 4 stroke 973cc 3 cylinder carbureted engine.  It is rated at 120 HP at 8500 RPM.  It has electric carb heat.

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:25 am Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

To answer your question about the gearbox noise - that noise is perfectly normal when running the rk-400 clutch. It's normal gear noise, you'll notice it's more pronounced when turning the prop one way vs the other, which has to do with the helical gears. The noise is just the slight amount of lash you normally have....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

What RPMs have you been using?



snow can be fun too:  http://www.youtube.com/watch? 

v=4amTFCen0ZA&feature=related

BB



On 2, Jul 2009, at 2:24 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 tech.com>



 The 2005 Yamaha Vector Snowmobile engine is a liquid cooled 4  

 stroke 973cc 3 cylinder carbureted engine.  It is rated at 120 HP  

 at 8500 RPM.  It has electric carb heat.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51175#251175

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

 	  Quote: 	
		   The 2005 Yamaha Vector Snowmobile engine is a liquid cooled 4 stroke 973cc 

 3 cylinder carbureted engine.  It is rated at 120 HP at 8500 RPM.  It has 

 electric carb heat.


	




What gear box ratio?



Sounds like a good engine.  Yamaha makes good stuff.



Are you able to use all 8500 rpm?



Where does it get its max torque?  That will probably be where you want to 

cruise this engine.



Convenient with carb heat.



Are you running oil cooler and coolant radiator?



Seems, just from looking at the video, those two coolers are going to be a 

big increase in drag.  Just guessing.  We have good luck mounting the 

coolers behind the fuselage.  I even have mine piggy backed'



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

I am cruising at 7000 rpm and have it propped for max level flight RPM of 8100 rpm.

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		   The 2005 Yamaha Vector Snowmobile engine is a liquid cooled 4 stroke 973cc 

 3 cylinder carbureted engine.  It is rated at 120 HP at 8500 RPM.  It has 

 electric carb heat.



	




What gear box ratio?



Sounds like a good engine.  Yamaha makes good stuff.



Are you able to use all 8500 rpm?



Where does it get its max torque?  That will probably be where you want to 

cruise this engine.



Convenient with carb heat.



Are you running oil cooler and coolant radiator?



Seems, just from looking at the video, those two coolers are going to be a 

big increase in drag.  Just guessing.  We have good luck mounting the 

coolers behind the fuselage.  I even have mine piggy backed'



john h

mkIII 	




The gearbox is 3.47 ratio



There is no oil cooler but there is a water to oil heat exchanger build into the engine.



I know the radiators  might be overkill, but I really wanted to design a system that would cool and not have to dive right back in if it was running too hot. There is a thermostat in the system and the water temp is running cool now, so after this summer, I might try just running 1 cooler and see what happens.  Cooling was one of the issues I had with my last engine and it is very gratifying to be able to operate at full throttle for as long as I want and have the temperatures remain well in the green.



On a side note.  On one of my full throttle level flight tests, the right side door popped in.  I heard it but did not see what had happened until I landed.  I just opened the door and put some slight pressure on the inside and it popped right back out.



Jason

Kolb MKIII Yamaha

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:07 pm Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

> On a side note.  On one of my full throttle level flight tests, the right 

side door popped in.  I heard it but did not see what had happened until I 

landed.  I just opened the door and put some slight pressure on the inside 

and it popped right back out.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Jason


	




Are you flying with a slip/skid indicator or yaw string ?



Might have been out of yaw trim, side loading the door.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

I fly with a yaw string, and yes it is possible I "wagged my tail" and put a side load on the door.

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

Howard  Shackleford

FS II

SC   

  In a message dated 7/2/2009 1:22:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jason(at)trek-tech.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  A couple    of weeks ago I finished the installation of a 2005 Yamaha Vector snowmobile    engine with a Rotax 3.47 gearbox.   	




 Dell Summer Savings: Cool Deals on Popular Laptops - Shop Now!

  [quote][b]

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

Is that the 120 hp or the 80 hp?

  

 Howard  Shackleford

FS II

SC   

  In a message dated 7/2/2009 1:22:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jason(at)trek-tech.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  A couple    of weeks ago I finished the installation of a 2005 Yamaha Vector snowmobile    engine with a Rotax 3.47 gearbox.  I now have about 5 hours on it and am    ready to say that this engine just might  	




 Dell Summer Savings: Cool Deals on Popular Laptops - Shop Now!

  [quote][b]

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

The Yamaha Vector is a 120 HP engine

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

Didn't find a 2005 Yamaha for sale.. I notice that the snowmobile is 

abt 10k     .What do you have in the installation?   Herb

At 06:45 PM 7/2/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



The Yamaha Vector is a 120 HP engine





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51232#251232





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07/02/09 05:54:00

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

My experience with 4 stroke motorcycles tells me that a 4stroke engine running at  7000 rpms is on the edge of explosion  but 

 i am old and  my racing  mcs was in the 70's   I can live with a 5000 rpm 4 stroke but 7 is just too many movements for me in a minute when I think about a 4 or 5 hour cross country stretch!  Chris



 

   From: Jason Omelchuck <jason(at)trek-tech.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 2:54:12 PM

Subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason(at)trek-tech.com (jason(at)trek-tech.com)>



I am cruising at 7000 rpm and have it propped for max level flight RPM of 8100 rpm.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251181========================



           [quote][b]

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

You can usually get a 2005 to 2007 snowmobile that has very low miles on it for around 4K to 5K.  After you take out the engine and strip the wire harness, you can sell the parts for 1K to 1.5K so you have 3K to 4K in the engine.  My entire conversion including the Rotax gearbox was about 7K.  I purchased the gearbox adapter from a guy and I will pass along his contact in a separate post.



Jason

uote] 	  herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: 	
		  Didn't find a 2005 Yamaha for sale.. I notice that the snowmobile is 

abt 10k     .What do you have in the installation?   Herb

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

I believe you will find that the technology used in these engines is far superior to what was in the 70's.   Only time will tell, but I do remember the people who were used to flying lycomings said the same thing about the "ticking bomb" rotax 912's when they came out.



I would be relucent to condem these engines because of expierences of almost 40 years ago.  Bus as I said, only time will tell.

[quote="capedavis(at)yahoo.com"]My experience with 4 stroke motorcycles tells me that a 4stroke engine running at  7000 rpms is on the edge of explosion  but 

 i am old and  my racing  mcs was in the 70's ï¿½ I can live with a 5000 rpm 4 stroke but 7 is just too many movements for me in a minute when I think about a 4 or 5 hour cross country stretch!ï¿½ Chris



 

   From: Jason Omelchuck <jason>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 2:54:12 PM

Subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason>



I am cruising at 7000 rpm and have it propped for max level flight RPM of 8100 rpm.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251181========================



            	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

---

FiltranZer

Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:51 am Post subject: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII

To acknowledgment your catechism about the gearbox babble - that babble is altogether accustomed if active the rk-400 clutch. It's accustomed accessory noise, you'll apprehension it's added arresting if axis the prop one way vs the other, which has to do with the circling gears. The babble is just the slight bulk of baste you commonly have....





_________________

Aprilaire humidifier

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: New alternate engine on my MKIII

Fantastic Jason...

    Hopefully the little engine will have reliability and wearability 

attributes of the 912s... no reason why it should not...

   I notice that Rotax is selling a three cyl, 4 cycle engine with 

throttle body injection in the Ski Doo... for similar money...similar 

hp..  Herb

At 12:23 AM 7/3/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

You can usually get a 2005 to 2007 snowmobile that has very low 

miles on it for around 4K to 5K.  After you take out the engine and 

strip the wire harness, you can sell the parts for 1K to 1.5K so you 

have 3K to 4K in the engine.  My entire conversion including the 

Rotax gearbox was about 7K.  I purchased the gearbox adapter from a 

guy and I will pass along his contact in a separate post.

Jason

uote]

herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:

 > Didn't find a 2005 Yamaha for sale.. I notice that the snowmobile is

 > abt 10k     .What do you have in the installation?   Herb

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51274#251274

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

07/02/09 05:54:00

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