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Engine mount shims. Need help.

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GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject: Engine mount shims. Need help.

Some of you may remember I asked what the distance was on your Tiger/Cheetah from the firewall to the back of the spinner (you know, the edge you'd be measuring to if you laid a measuring tape across the top of the engine from the firewall to the aft edge of the spinner.  Don't make this harder than it has to be).   

 

  NOTE: The original tooling was made on N28840.  This plane had one shim on the top of each mount.  A splash made from that original tooling was fitted on about a half dozen planes.  I have pictures of it on John Bunker's plane and Vi Bui's plane.  They all fit fine.  So, I finalized the tooling.  From that tooling, a cowling was made and installed on N119ST.  All of my initial flights were with that plane.  

  

 

  My original question was a result of, during the fitting of Jaguar cowling Serial Number: 0  on N1976T, I found that distance to be 39 3/4 inches.  Whereas, mine was 40 inches (mine has 2 shims on each top bushing).  This made the 'trim-to-fit' lines on the cowling about useless.  I added shims to the top engine mount bushings and that moved the engine down somewhat.  Still shy of 40 inches, but, not much.  Fitting the cowling was still a pain in the ass.  

  

 

  OK, so, then comes Serial Number 1:  N3752W was 39 3/4 inches with one shim on each top.  I added one shim each and that moved it to 40 inches.  Still, fitting the cowling was odd because the trim line on the left side of the cowling was right, but, the right side was 1/4 inches shy (meaning I had to trim 1/4 inch more than indicated by the trim line).  Along the bottom, the trim goes from trim line to 1/4 inches forward.

  

 

  I have a spare fuselage with an engine hanging on it.  With one shim on each top mount, it was a little over 39 3/4, say 39 13/16.  I added one shim to each and got about 40 inches.  Great.  Or so I thought.  I began fitting a cowling for another plane using that configuration.  Still, it was off about 1/4 inches on the right side.  

  

 

  Solution:  I installed the cowling from my plane onto the spare fuselage.  The result was, in order to get the engine to align with the my cowling, I had to add an additional 1/2 shim to the right and remove 1 shim from the left.  Both bottom mounts have 1 shim each.  

 

  

 

  I have N119ST in my hangar.  It has no shims on the top left, one on the top right and one each on the bottom mounts.  That engine is 40 1/16 from the firewall to the spinner.  

  

 

  So, please do my a favor, a big favor, and look at your spinner to nose bowl alignment.   Then give me the following information.  

  

 

  Alignment:  (e.g., aligned, spinner is to the right and down, etc.)

  Distance from firewall to spinner:  (i.e., measure from the firewall adjacent to where the hinge mounts and the aft edge of the spinner)

  

 

  Then engine mount shim configuration:

  

 

  Top Left: (e.g., 1 shim, 2 shims, etc)

  Top right: ( same )

  Bottom left: (same )

  Bottom right ( same).

  

 

  Bob S, you're a font of knowledge on lots of things.  Do you know if there are differences between the installed heights of any of the engine mount vibration isolators?  I know there a a couple of different part numbers out there for Tiger/Cheetahs, do they have different installed heights?

  

 

  You all (Y'all, Garner) might want to know why it makes a difference.  As installed, my prop spinner to cowling gap is about .100 to .120 inches.  Trust me, it makes a difference.  Please, I need to know how much variation there is in the installed distances.

  

 

  Thanks in advance.

  Gary 

   [quote][b]

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_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: Engine mount shims. Need help.

 "Bob S, you're a font of knowledge on lots of things.  Do you know if  there are differences between the installed heights of any of the engine mount  vibration isolators?  I know there a a couple of different part numbers out  there for Tiger/Cheetahs, do they have different installed heights?"

  

 There are three different mounts for Tigers, 2 Lord and 1 Barry.  The  early Tigers used a J-9613-49, which was changed to an improved J-9613-59 mount  in 1977 as I recall.  The Barry mount is a cross for the -49 Lord mount and  no cross for the -59 is available.  Many of the planes that came with the  -59 mount have been replaced with the Barry mount because it is CHEAPER (but not  as good).  From a stack height standpoint, all three mounts should be the  same I would think but the -59 mounts have a considerably higher spring rate in  compression and lower spring rate in shear.  In effect they will sag less  and absorb torsional vibration better.

  

 Cliff



 [quote] [b]

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phil(at)ReliantAir.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:46 am Post subject: Engine mount shims. Need help.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">   79 Tiger S/N 0942, 2 washers top right, 1 bottom left, none on rest. 39 3/4" FW to spinner. Spinner droops 1/8 " down and to the right.  No sag in Barry mounts that were installed in 2000.Phil

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom:  teamgrumman(at)aol.com 

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:13:10 -0500

To: <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Engine mount shims.  Need help.

Some of you may remember=  I asked what the distance was on your Tiger/Cheetah from the firewall to=  the back of the spinner (you know, the edge you'd be measuring to if you=  laid a measuring tape across the top of the engine from the firewall to=  the aft edge of the spinner.  Don't make this harder than it has to=  be).   

  NOTE: The original tooling was made on N28840.  This plane had=  one shim on the top of each mount.  A splash made from that original=  tooling was fitted on about a half dozen planes.  I have pictures of=  it on John Bunker's plane and Vi Bui's plane.  They all fit fine. &n= bsp;So, I finalized the tooling.  From that tooling, a cowling was ma= de and installed on N119ST.  All of my initial flights were with that=  plane.  

  My original question was a result of, during the fitting of Jaguar co= wling Serial Number: 0  on N1976T, I found that distance to be 39 3/4=  inches.  Whereas, mine was 40 inches (mine has 2 shims on each top=  bushing).  This made the 'trim-to-fit' lines on the cowling about us= eless.  I added shims to the top engine mount bushings and that moved=  the engine down somewhat.  Still shy of 40 inches, but, not much. &n= bsp;Fitting the cowling was still a pain in the ass.  

  OK, so, then comes Serial Number 1:  N3752W was 39 3/4 inches wi= th one shim on each top.  I added one shim each and that moved it to=  40 inches.  Still, fitting the cowling was odd because the trim line=  on the left side of the cowling was right, but, the right side was 1/4 in= ches shy (meaning I had to trim 1/4 inch more than indicated by the trim=  line).  Along the bottom, the trim goes from trim line to 1/4 inches=  forward.

  I have a spare fuselage with an engine hanging on it.  With one=  shim on each top mount, it was a little over 39 3/4, say 39 13/16.  = I added one shim to each and got about 40 inches.  Great.  Or so=  I thought.  I began fitting a cowling for another plane using that=  configuration.  Still, it was off about 1/4 inches on the right side= .  

  Solution:  I installed the cowling from my plane onto the spare=  fuselage.  The result was, in order to get the engine to align with=  the my cowling, I had to add an additional 1/2 shim to the right and remo= ve 1 shim from the left.  Both bottom mounts have 1 shim each.  = 

  I have N119ST in my hangar.  It has no shims on the top left, on= e on the top right and one each on the bottom mounts.  That engine is=  40 1/16 from the firewall to the spinner.  

  So, please do my a favor, a big favor, and look at your spinner to no= se bowl alignment.   Then give me the following information.  </= div>  

  Alignment:  (e.g., aligned, spinner is to the right and down, et= c.)

  Distance from firewall to spinner:  (i.e., measure from the fire= wall adjacent to where the hinge mounts and the aft edge of the spinner)</= div>  

  Then engine mount shim configuration:

  Top Left: (e.g., 1 shim, 2 shims, etc)

  Top right: ( same )

  Bottom left: (same )

  Bottom right ( same).

  Bob S, you're a font of knowledge on lots of things.  Do you kno= w if there are differences between the installed heights of any of the eng= ine mount vibration isolators?  I know there a a couple of different=  part numbers out there for Tiger/Cheetahs, do they have different install= ed heights?

  You all (Y'all, Garner) might want to know why it makes a difference.=   As installed, my prop spinner to cowling gap is about .100 to .120=  inches.  Trust me, it makes a difference.  Please, I need to kn= ow how much variation there is in the installed distances.

  Thanks in advance.

  Gary 

   [quote][b]

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GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject: Engine mount shims. Need help.

You really should have 1 shim on each of the bottom mounts.  The engine case actually contacts the mount if you don't. 

 

  The spinner down 1/8 is good.  In flight, the engine/spinner comes up.  I bet you wonder how I know this.  A little smily face on my cowling told me.  (alternator drive pulley.)

 

  

 

 

  --

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_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

phil(at)ReliantAir.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:02 am Post subject: Engine mount shims. Need help.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">   Thanks, I'll check that out.Phil

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom:  teamgrumman(at)aol.com 

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:12:40 -0500

To: <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Engine mount shims.  Need help.



You really should have 1=  shim on each of the bottom mounts.  The engine case actually contact= s the mount if you don't. 

 

  The spinner down 1/8 is good.  In flight, the engine/spinner com= es up.  I bet you wonder how I know this.  A little smily face=  on my cowling told me.  (alternator drive pulley.)

 

  

 

 

  ----= -Original Message-----

 From: phil(at)ReliantAir.com

 To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2010 6:46 am

 Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Engine mount shims.  Need help.

 

             79 Tiger S/N 0942, 2 washers top right, 1 bottom left, none on rest. 39=  3/4" FW to spinner. Spinner droops 1/8 " down and to the right.  No sag=  in Barry mounts that were installed in 2000.

 Phil Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

  From:  teamgrumman(at)aol.= com (teamgrumman(at)aol.com) 

  Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:13:10 -0500

  To: <team= grumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>

  Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Engine mount shims.  Need help.  

 

 Some of you ma= y remember=3D  I asked what the distance was on your Tiger/Cheetah from the firewall to= =3D  the back of the spinner (you know, the edge you'd be measuring to if you= =3D  laid a measuring tape across the top of the engine from the firewall to= =3D  the aft edge of the spinner.  Don't make this harder than it has to= =3D  be).    

  

    NOTE: The original tooling was made on N28840.  This plane had= =3D  one shim on the top of each mount.  A splash made from that original= =3D  tooling was fitted on about a half dozen planes.  I have pictures of= =3D  it on John Bunker's plane and Vi Bui's plane.  They all fit fine. &a= mp;n=3D bsp;So, I finalized the tooling.  From that tooling, a cowling was ma= =3D de and installed on N119ST.  All of my initial flights were with that= =3D  plane.  

    

  

    My original question was a result of, during the fitting of Jaguar co= =3D wling Serial Number: 0  on N1976T, I found that distance to be 39 3/4= =3D  inches.  Whereas, mine was 40 inches (mine has 2 shims on each top= =3D  bushing).  This made the 'trim-to-fit' lines on the cowling about us= =3D eless.  I added shims to the top engine mount bushings and that moved= =3D  the engine down somewhat.  Still shy of 40 inches, but, not much. &a= mp;n=3D bsp;Fitting the cowling was still a pain in the ass.  

    

  

    OK, so, then comes Serial Number 1:  N3752W was 39 3/4 inches wi= =3D th one shim on each top.  I added one shim each and that moved it to= =3D  40 inches.  Still, fitting the cowling was odd because the trim line= =3D  on the left side of the cowling was right, but, the right side was 1/4 in= =3D ches shy (meaning I had to trim 1/4 inch more than indicated by the trim= =3D  line).  Along the bottom, the trim goes from trim line to 1/4 inches= =3D  forward.

    

  

    I have a spare fuselage with an engine hanging on it.  With one= =3D  shim on each top mount, it was a little over 39 3/4, say 39 13/16.  = =3D I added one shim to each and got about 40 inches.  Great.  Or so= =3D  I thought.  I began fitting a cowling for another plane using that= =3D  configuration.  Still, it was off about 1/4 inches on the right side= =3D .  

    

  

    Solution:  I installed the cowling from my plane onto the spare= =3D  fuselage.  The result was, in order to get the engine to align with= =3D  the my cowling, I had to add an additional 1/2 shim to the right and remo= =3D ve 1 shim from the left.  Both bottom mounts have 1 shim each.  = =3D 

  

    

  

    I have N119ST in my hangar.  It has no shims on the top left, on= =3D e on the top right and one each on the bottom mounts.  That engine is= =3D  40 1/16 from the firewall to the spinner.  

    

  

    So, pleas= e do my a favor, a big favor, and look at your spinner to no=3D se bowl alignment.   Then give me the following information.     

  

    Alignment:  (e.g., aligned, spinner is to the right and down, et= =3D c.)

    Distance=  from firewall to spinner:  (i.e., measure from the fire=3D wall adjacent to where the hinge mounts and the aft edge of the spinner)   

  

    Then engine mount shim configuration:

    

  

    Top Left: (e.g., 1 shim, 2 shims, etc)

    Top right: ( same )

    Bottom left: (same )

    Bottom right ( same).

    

  

    Bob S, you're a font of knowledge on lots of things.  Do you kno= =3D w if there are differences between the installed heights of any of the eng= =3D ine mount vibration isolators?  I know there a a couple of different= =3D  part numbers out there for Tiger/Cheetahs, do they have different install= =3D ed heights?

    

  

    You all (Y'all, Garner) might want to know why it makes a difference.= =3D   As installed, my prop spinner to cowling gap is about .100 to .120= =3D  inches.  Trust me, it makes a difference.  Please, I need to kn= =3D ow how much variation there is in the installed distances.

    

  

    Thanks in advance.

    Gary 

     	  Quote: 	
		  



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   [quote][b]

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