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hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
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 Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:35 am Post subject: MONOlogue |
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Dear Mono Fraternity
I have struck upon an idea which I thought might interest other Mono
believers.
The revelation that my flaps no longer retracted as nicely once the
outrigger legs were installed caused me some angst and disappointment to the
extent that I investigated more closely the geometry of the outrigger
mechanism. Whilst adjusting the flaps to go home more firmly yielded
a slight improvement, I found the outriggers still wanted to hang down
slightly.
My calculations revealed (subsequently confirmed with a spring balance)
that the force exerted by the flaps through the push rod OR5 to hold an
outrigger fully up (horizontally) is in the order of 18kg (40 lbs).
I found that this amount of force causes spring in the train from the flap
drive pin to the outrigger mechanism significant enough to cause the
outrigger to sag somewhat from the fully up position. By fully up, I mean
the nylon leg touching the bottom of the flap hinge.
My solution has been to install a small gas strut as depicted in the
attached photos.
If you haven't witnessed how much better the operation of the outriggers are
with this set-up, you would probably find it hard to believe the difference
it makes to the whole operation of the flaps and outriggers.
Expected advantage achieved:-
Only that the outrigger leg would be fully supported by the gas strut when
the leg is up (no force required by the flap at all)
Unexpected advantages achieved:-
When the wing is removed, because the outrigger is held up by the gas
strut, the flap does not want to fall down and is in fact quite positively
held up. Have you never removed a wing and had the flap fall down?
When the outrigger leg extends, the gas strut goes slightly over centre
and to a small degree assists the leg to lock down.
The force required to extend or retract the outrigger leg seems to be
about the same in both directions. It needs a slight force to start it on
its way down and likewise, a small force to start it on its way up again.
Disadvantage:-
The only one I can see is the extra weight of the two gas struts
which I am prepared to wear.
The only caveat is that I have not flight tested it yet unfortunately
but I have a high degree of confidence it will be every bit as good as the
standard set-up if not better. One thing that will be better for sure is
that the outriggers will not hang down resembling a lame duck!
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
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dpark748(at)hotmail.co.uk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:32 am Post subject: MONOlogue |
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Does your speek kit! still fit over it?
Dave
[quote] From: hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: MONOlogue
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:24:08 +1000
Dear Mono Fraternity
I have struck upon an idea which I thought might interest other Mono
believers.
The revelation that my flaps no longer retracted as nicely once the
outrigger legs were installed caused me some angst and disappointment to the
extent that I investigated more closely the geometry of the outrigger
mechanism. Whilst adjusting the flaps to go home more firmly yielded
a slight improvement, I found the outriggers still wanted to hang down
slightly.
My calculations revealed (subsequently confirmed with a spring balance)
that the force exerted by the flaps through the push rod OR5 to hold an
outrigger fully up (horizontally) is in the order of 18kg (40 lbs).
I found that this amount of force causes spring in the train from the flap
drive pin to the outrigger mechanism significant enough to cause the
outrigger to sag somewhat from the fully up position. By fully up, I mean
the nylon leg touching the bottom of the flap hinge.
My solution has been to install a small gas strut as depicted in the
attached photos.
If you haven't witnessed how much better the operation of the outriggers are
with this set-up, you would probably find it hard to believe the difference
it makes to the whole operation of the flaps and outriggers.
Expected advantage achieved:-
Only that the outrigger leg would be fully supported by the gas strut when
the leg is up (no force required by the flap at all)
Unexpected advantages achieved:-
When the wing is removed, because the outrigger is held up by the gas
strut, the flap does not want to fall down and is in fact quite positively
held up. Have you never removed a wing and had the flap fall down?
When the outrigger leg extends, the gas strut goes slightly over centre
and to a small degree assists the leg to lock down.
The force required to extend or retract the outrigger leg seems to be
about the same in both directions. It needs a slight force to start it on
its way down and likewise, a small force to start it on its way up again.
Disadvantage:-
The only one I can see is the extra weight of the two gas struts
which I am prepared to wear.
The only caveat is that I have not flight tested it yet unfortunately
but I have a high degree of confidence it will be every bit as good as the
standard set-up if not better. One thing that will be better for sure is
that the outriggers will not hang down resembling a lame duck!
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: MONOlogue |
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Kingsley,
The mod looks great. The one concern I would have is that quite a few monos
are quite late in the approach before the outriggers lock down, the effect
of air loads I think. Your gas strut combined with the air loads .... , are
you quite sure they will lock down in flight.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: MONOlogue |
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Mike
not sure I agree re air loads, the flaps were designed so that lift reacts straight up the support through the pivot so there should be no force raising or lowering the flap. Certainly if the gear bungie is correctly adjusted you can put the flap anywhere in flight and it doesn't move. Sure there might be some bias from the gear but flaps down I suspect air loads are balanced by the loads in the flap hangers and can't affect fore and aft movement of the flap? Comments?
Graham
From: Mike Parkin <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March, 2010 19:33:38
Subject: RE: MONOlogue
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com (mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com)>
Kingsley,
The mod looks great. The one concern I would have is that quite a few monos
are quite late in the approach before the outriggers lock down, the effect
of air loads I think. Your gas strut combined with the air loads .... , are
you quite sure they will lock down in flight.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive
<-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Lista href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matr= Thank you for your generous nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:43 pm Post subject: MONOlogue |
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Graham,
I think you missed my point. The air load I was referring to was the airstream acting on the lower part of the outrigger leg, preventing the leg from moving forward that last bit to allow the outrigger latch to operate.  It may not be airloads, but there certainly is something that occasionally prevents the outrigger locking down until the IAS reduces. It has occurred a couple of times on G-JULZ and I recall other people reporting similar happenings on the this site.
My concern with the air strut is that its action is in an opposite direction to the forward locking motion. But what do I know, it may work brilliantly. In flight, G-JULZ does not appear to have any noticeable droop. The problem is only an aesthetic  one for outside observers, you cannot see the outriggers from the cockpit.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive.
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: 31 March 2010 23:54
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: MONOlogue
Mike
not sure I agree re air loads, the flaps were designed so that lift reacts straight up the support through the pivot so there should be no force raising or lowering the flap. Certainly if the gear bungie is correctly adjusted you can put the flap anywhere in flight and it doesn't move. Sure there might be some bias from the gear but flaps down I suspect air loads are balanced by the loads in the flap hangers and can't affect fore and aft movement of the flap? Comments?
Graham
From: Mike Parkin <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March, 2010 19:33:38
Subject: RE: MONOlogue
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com (mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com)>
Kingsley,
The mod looks great. The one concern I would have is that quite a few monos
are quite late in the approach before the outriggers lock down, the effect
of air loads I think. Your gas strut combined with the air loads ... , are
you quite sure they will lock down in flight.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive
<-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Lista href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matr= Thank you for your generous nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
0123456789
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:32:00
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: MONOlogue |
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You're right, I did miss your point. I'll go back to hibernation mode 
From: Mike Parkin <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, 1 April, 2010 6:41:27
Subject: RE: MONOlogue
Graham,
I think you missed my point. The air load I was referring to was the airstream acting on the lower part of the outrigger leg, preventing the leg from moving forward that last bit to allow the outrigger latch to operate. It may not be airloads, but there certainly is something that occasionally prevents the outrigger locking down until the IAS reduces. It has occurred a couple of times on G-JULZ and I recall other people reporting similar happenings on the this site.
My concern with the air strut is that its action is in an opposite direction to the forward locking motion. But what do I know, it may work brilliantly. In flight, G-JULZ does not appear to have any noticeable droop. The problem is only an aesthetic one for outside observers, you cannot see the outriggers from the cockpit.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive.
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: 31 March 2010 23:54
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: MONOlogue
Mike
not sure I agree re air loads, the flaps were designed so that lift reacts straight up the support through the pivot so there should be no force raising or lowering the flap. Certainly if the gear bungie is correctly adjusted you can put the flap anywhere in flight and it doesn't move. Sure there might be some bias from the gear but flaps down I suspect air loads are balanced by the loads in the flap hangers and can't affect fore and aft movement of the flap? Comments?
Graham
From: Mike Parkin <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March, 2010 19:33:38
Subject: RE: MONOlogue
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com (mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com)>
Kingsley,
The mod looks great. The one concern I would have is that quite a few monos
are quite late in the approach before the outriggers lock down, the effect
of air loads I think. Your gas strut combined with the air loads .... , are
you quite sure they will lock down in flight.
Regards,
Mike
Do not archive
<-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Lista href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matr= Thank you for your generous nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
0123456789
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:32:00
0
[quote][b]
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roddyeuropa(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:49 am Post subject: MONOlogue |
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I would agree with this. My advice is to simulate some drag on the outriggers when gear extension is being tested on the ground using bungee straps attached to the outrigger wheels to exert some rearward force against the extension. I have not worked out how much tension is needed but if someone could work out the drag on an outrigger at 80 knots...
Roddy Kesterton G-KRK
--
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hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: MONOlogue |
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| Quote: |
<mikenjulie.parkin(at)btinternet.com>
The mod looks great. The one concern I would have is that quite a few
monos
are quite late in the approach before the outriggers lock down, the effect
of air loads I think. Your gas strut combined with the air loads .... ,
are
you quite sure they will lock down in flight.
|
Hello Mike,
Yes I agree some mono outriggers lock down late and I experienced one
myself that locked down at 60 kts as we crossed the boundary fence.
The reasons for locking late could be many and varied . . . . build
variances, binding, wear and air loads come to mind. As I said, my idea has
not been tested in the air (unless unbeknown to me somebody else has already
tried it!) so I cannot make any guarantees but my static testing looks very
promising.
You will appreciate that the mechanical advantage supplied by the gas strut
is at a maximum when it is needed most, i.e. with the leg fully up. As the
leg goes down, the mechanical advantage diminishes until it is zero quite
some time before the leg is latched. From this point on, the gas strut
becomes overcentre and slightly assists the extension of the leg. IOW,
with the flap disconnected, if I push the leg down with my finger on the top
of it, the load progressively gets lighter on my finger until the leg
suddenly leaves my finger and locks itself down. It is for this reason, I
cannot see how it will be any worse than the original set-up and in fact,
makes me believe that if anything, it should be slightly better on
extension.
Cheers
Kingsley
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hurstkr(at)redzone.com.au
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: MONOlogue |
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David Park wrote:-
> Does your speek kit! still fit over it?
Yes mine does David but I can't speak for the factory supplied speed kit as I have never seen one.
Having said that, my outrigger fairing does limit just how far forward I can put the fixed end so the overcentre action is not quite as good as it could be.
Cheers
Kingsley
[quote][b]
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