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Jeff(at)rmmm.net Guest
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Hi All,
My electronic problem is continuing to elude me. Thats not saying much
since I have never wired anything except a room or two on some houses
over the years. With that said I have been having trouble keeping my
battery charged over the past 4 or 5 months. Gold Rush has 220
delightful hours on her, but lately she's just not charging the
battery, or maybe I have a drain somewhere that wasn't there before. I
have replaced the regulator, and the big blue capacitor. After
charging the battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter.
I checked the battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp
fuzes and they are good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed
it but to no avail. Today I check the output of both alternator wires
as they we're connected at the GG connections to the regulator and
they we're reading - 6.5. when connected. When disconnected from the
regulator they didn't have a reading at all. Is that normal?
I also checked the +B output to see if it was sending a charge and it
read only .53 volts.
If any of you have advise to this non understanding electronics guy
that would like to be flying charged to safely get to sun-n-fun let me
know.
Thanks In Advance!!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On 04/08/2010 05:21 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
Quote: |
battery today I went out and bought a new voltage meeter. I checked the
battery 1st to be at 12.5 volts, I checked the 30 amp fuzes and they are
good. Last week I did find a loose ground and fixed it but to no avail.
Today I check the output of both alternator wires as they we're
connected at the GG connections to the regulator and they we're reading
- 6.5. when connected.
|
The wires from the alternator carry alternating current, so your voltage
meter has to be set to AC.
What is the battery voltage when the engine is running?
You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE
CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably
with all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the
capacitor.
Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts.
Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point.
Frans
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budyerly(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Jeff,
Let me pile on... Jim Brown and I have just gone through this.
Frans is right on. The GG connections are AC.
First confirm the voltage regulator is charging the battery. At 3000 RPM your ammeter should be near zero for a fully charged battery, and voltage should be 13.5-13.8 volts. If it is not, it is the stator or regulator.
Regulator: Check the light circuit. Light on with engine off? It is supposed to be OK...Wrong, trust no light only.
Check B+ again, with the alternator C and B connected it should be battery voltage, C is often put on an alternator switch, so check that the switch provides battery voltage.
Check AC voltage from stator yellow leads. (see heavy mx manual 13.4.7).
The regulator is a solid state device and does fail. $190 from Rotax. I used to keep a spare, but too expensive now.
Stator:
Check the resistance values of the stator yellow leads per the heavy maintenance manual. You need a good Volt/Ohm meter for this.
If there is a short, then replacement of the stator is necessary. I have repaired them before, and a year later, I had to go in again and replace it. Yours is a fairly new engine, so you should not have a defective stator like I had. $1200 from Rotax.
Enjoy your troubleshooting,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
[quote] ---
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Jeff(at)rmmm.net Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Thanks Bud, Frans & allAs soon as my work day ends I'm on this. I'll keep ya posted.
Thanks!!!!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
On Apr 8, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
[quote]Jeff,
Let me pile on... Jim Brown and I have just gone through this.
Frans is right on. The GG connections are AC.
First confirm the voltage regulator is charging the battery. At 3000 RPM your ammeter should be near zero for a fully charged battery, and voltage should be 13.5-13.8 volts. If it is not, it is the stator or regulator.
Regulator: Check the light circuit. Light on with engine off? It is supposed to be OK...Wrong, trust no light only.
Check B+ again, with the alternator C and B connected it should be battery voltage, C is often put on an alternator switch, so check that the switch provides battery voltage.
Check AC voltage from stator yellow leads. (see heavy mx manual 13.4.7).
The regulator is a solid state device and does fail. $190 from Rotax. I used to keep a spare, but too expensive now.
Stator:
Check the resistance values of the stator yellow leads per the heavy maintenance manual. You need a good Volt/Ohm meter for this.
If there is a short, then replacement of the stator is necessary. I have repaired them before, and a year later, I had to go in again and replace it. Yours is a fairly new engine, so you should not have a defective stator like I had. $1200 from Rotax.
Enjoy your troubleshooting,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
[quote]---
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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Jeff,
With everything in your aircraft turned off, place an ammeter in series with the battery.� It should read zero, if it doesn't then you need to start looking for something discharging it.
Another (less likely) scenario is that the battery has an internal fault and is self discharging. I have a couple of thoughts on how to check this, none of them simple so let me think on it a bit more.
Question, have you taken it down to somewhere like Batteries Plus and had load test.� The battery will need to be fully charged first.
Paul
[quote][b]
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Jeff(at)rmmm.net Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On Apr 8, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Paul McAllister wrote:
Quote: | Jeff,
With everything in your aircraft turned off, place an ammeter in series with the battery. It should read zero, if it doesn't then you need to start looking for something discharging it.
|
I put that on my to do test tonight. Thanks
Quote: |
Another (less likely) scenario is that the battery has an internal fault and is self discharging. I have a couple of thoughts on how to check this, none of them simple so let me think on it a bit more.
Question, have you taken it down to somewhere like Batteries Plus and had load test. The battery will need to be fully charged first.
| No but thats a good idea after I try the other test. Just to busy today to work on it. Maybe tonight.
Thanks Paul!
[quote]
Paul
Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Quote: | ...
What is the battery voltage when the engine is running?
You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE
CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably with
|
all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the capacitor.
Quote: | Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts.
Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point.
|
Jeff,
These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF this is a
shunt regulator (I think it is), it regulates by shorting out the alternator
phase(s) to ground, once the voltage starts to go higher than its internal
setpoint (lets say somewhere around....14-15 volts or so, at the regulator).
If there is no load to the alternator such as accessories and a battery, the
regulator has to soak up ALL of the excess power from the alternator. At
high engine speeds, this can become very significant. Without cooling, it
can be very hard on the regulator. I suggest that if you test (yes,
DEFINITELY with the capacitor) without the battery hooked up, try not to run
the engine too high in rpm for too long so as not to risk damaging the
regulator. IMHO, test with battery in circuit if possible, unless the
battery itself is suspected. A charge voltage between 13 and 14 Volts I
consider good, and 13.8 ideal. Anything over 12.7 is charging the battery
(for lead acid technology).
Your battery tested at 12.5. That means its about 84% charged, assuming it
is newer and in good shape (or the reading would be higher), does not have
any significant load connected to it, or charged within a half day or so of
the reading (voltage reading will be high after a charge, but slowly drop to
its normal value). If it had measured 12.7V, it would be fully charged.
11.94V would have signified about 10% charge. No-load checks are not the
best way to check a battery and these values only work for lead-acid, but it
gives an idea of its charge status. This paragraph is just a bit of an
aside, but might help if wondering about charge state of the battery or
battery diagnostic. If only one cell is bad in the battery (for example,
shorted plates), the battery would read low by about 2.1V. Assuming a fully
charged, it would be below 10.6V for the voltage reading. If it has a
cracked post, its value won't seem to make sense every time you measure it
..charging....loaded....just sitting there... and it will drive you (I mean
me) crazy. Good Luck!
Regards,
Greg
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Jeff(at)rmmm.net Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:59 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Guys,
Just to keep you up to speed as to where were I'm at.
Tonight before it got too dark I managed to check the following with
the engine at 2200 rpm's. At first after charging Battery, the voltage
check direct on the terminals was 12.5. The GG alternator inputs on
the regulator we're 15.7 AC so I'm assuming the engine is producing
correct voltage. I checked the +B out of the regulator and it read
only .55 volts DC. Moved the engine up to 3000 RPM's and the +G only
went to .55 volts. One of you said that should be 13.5 which is what I
thought to charge the battery. Keep in mind my regulator is brand new.
Just put it on because I thought the old one caused the problem.
Turned all lights on and everything on the direct reading on the
battery went to 11.8 volts DC. After about 7 to 10 min. that went to
11.5
I can only feel at this point the new regulator is bad and that the
main loose ground I had found last week may have caused me to believe
the old one was bad. What are my chances of buying a new regulator
thats bad? Is there any other reason anyone can think of that may
cause the +B regulator output to be only putting out a half of volt?
Your inputs are very welcome!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush. Should have taking that shop course on
electronics 40 years back.
On Apr 8, 2010, at 5:12 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
Quote: |
>
> ...
> What is the battery voltage when the engine is running?
> You can also disconnect the regulator from the battery, BUT KEEP THE
CAPACITOR CONNECTED TO THE REGULATOR! and run the engine (preferably
with
all avionics switched off) and measure the voltage across the
capacitor.
> Voltage for the standard Rotax regulator should be appr. 13.7 Volts.
> Let me know how this works out so we have a starting point.
> Frans
Jeff,
These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF
this is a
shunt regulator (I think it is), it regulates by shorting out the
alternator
phase(s) to ground, once the voltage starts to go higher than its
internal
setpoint (lets say somewhere around....14-15 volts or so, at the
regulator).
If there is no load to the alternator such as accessories and a
battery, the
regulator has to soak up ALL of the excess power from the
alternator. At
high engine speeds, this can become very significant. Without
cooling, it
can be very hard on the regulator. I suggest that if you test (yes,
DEFINITELY with the capacitor) without the battery hooked up, try
not to run
the engine too high in rpm for too long so as not to risk damaging the
regulator. IMHO, test with battery in circuit if possible, unless the
battery itself is suspected. A charge voltage between 13 and 14
Volts I
consider good, and 13.8 ideal. Anything over 12.7 is charging the
battery
(for lead acid technology).
Your battery tested at 12.5. That means its about 84% charged,
assuming it
is newer and in good shape (or the reading would be higher), does
not have
any significant load connected to it, or charged within a half day
or so of
the reading (voltage reading will be high after a charge, but slowly
drop to
its normal value). If it had measured 12.7V, it would be fully
charged.
11.94V would have signified about 10% charge. No-load checks are not
the
best way to check a battery and these values only work for lead-
acid, but it
gives an idea of its charge status. This paragraph is just a bit of an
aside, but might help if wondering about charge state of the battery
or
battery diagnostic. If only one cell is bad in the battery (for
example,
shorted plates), the battery would read low by about 2.1V. Assuming
a fully
charged, it would be below 10.6V for the voltage reading. If it has a
cracked post, its value won't seem to make sense every time you
measure it
...charging....loaded....just sitting there... and it will drive you
(I mean
me) crazy. Good Luck!
Regards,
Greg
|
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On 04/09/2010 12:12 AM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
Quote: | These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF this is a
shunt regulator (I think it is),
|
It is not. It uses phase cutting (or just call it PWM). Hence the
absolute need for a large capacitor at the output.
Agree with your points about the battery.
That's why I recommended to test the voltage without the battery
connected. If it reads a correct voltage, we can assume the alternator
is good, we can fairly assume that the regulator works (although it may
fail under load, but is less likely). If the voltage does not read
correct, we can pinpoint our trouble shooting to the alternator and
regulator and don't have to worry about faulty wiring or batteries.
Regardless of the outcome, we can narrow down our search significantly.
Frans
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:08 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On 04/09/2010 02:21 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
Quote: | Tonight before it got too dark I managed to check the following with the
engine at 2200 rpm's. At first after charging Battery, the voltage check
direct on the terminals was 12.5. The GG alternator inputs on the
regulator we're 15.7 AC so I'm assuming the engine is producing correct
voltage. I checked the +B out of the regulator and it read only .55
volts DC. Moved the engine up to 3000 RPM's and the +G only went to .55
|
All right. Alternator is good. Battery is good. Regulator doesn't work.
But wait! This doesn't necessarily mean that the regulator is faulty.
Based on your tests I strongly suspect you have a wiring problem.
Without digging into the documentation: the +B should be connected to
your battery, so it should read AT LEAST the battery voltage, i.e. 11.5
Volts.
Furthermore, the regulator has a connector labeled C, and this is its
reference input. This is where it measures the battery voltage, and uses
this as a decision point how much of the juice of the alternator it
should go "let through".
So, in order for the regulator to work correctly, the C lead should be
definitily be connected to the battery somehow. Ideally, it runs with a
separate wire to the battery, but most folks simply tie it up to the +B
lead, which is supposed to be connected to the battery anyway. (This is
ok, but ignores the voltage drop over the battery cable, which is
minimal in most setups, so for sake of simplicity, just ty it all
together at the output of the regulator).
So, my next suspect is that the C connector is not carrying battery
voltage as well. Which is very bad:
In this condition, the regulator "thinks" that the battery voltage is
way too low, and cranks up the output. But regardless how much it tries,
the C connector will never read the correct voltage since it is not
connected properly. So, even if it outputs 20 Volts, it still thinks
that it should try harder because it measures "a far too low voltage" on
the C connector. You won't notice this, as the output of the regulator
is not connected to the battery.
I hate to tell you this, but in this condition it is well possible to
silently kill the regulator. After that point it will cease outputting
anything at all. And if you replace your regulator, you will kill the
new one as well instantly. Alas, this may be your current situation...
So. What you need to do to get out of this mess:
1) Double check that the minus of the battery is connected to the metal
case of the regulator. Also check that the minus of the capacitor is
connected to the metal case of the regulator.
2) Don't replace the regulator yet. Make sure that, without the engine
running, but the main (battery and alternator) switches to ON, you
measure on the output of the regulator the battery voltage (anything
above 11 Volt is ok). If this is not the case, the regulator is simply
not connected to the battery. It doesn't matter whether the regulator is
defect or not, the output should read battery voltage if it is connected
correctly to the battery. Correct your wiring, switches, relais, fuses,
CB's until you read battery voltage at the output of the regulator. Yes,
all this with the engine OFF, but with the switches in flight condition.
Proceed only to the next step if you have fixed this problem.
3) Run the engine. Measure again. Voltage should increase above 13
Volts. If it does, you most likely have solved the problem. If it
doesn't, you have killed your new regulator and should get a new one.
Most likely you have killed your previous regulator in the same way, but
it doesn't hurt to test it again now you have fixed your wiring. Maybe
you are lucky and it has still some life in it, otherwise you have to
buy a new regulator again.
Oh, and while you are at it, replace the big capacitor as well. If it is
has been destroyed (which is likely in the overvoltage condition it may
have experienced) it will kill a new regulator in a short time.
Note to readers: Yes, you CAN disconnect the regulator from the battery,
but ONLY if you make sure that the capacitor stays connected to the
regulator at all times, and that the C connector is connected to the
capacitor as well, so the regulator "sees" what it is doing. The
capacitor acts as a dummy battery in this case.
Jeff, the best way to avoid this kind of troubles again, is to connect
the C tab to the B tab on the alternator, and run from there a dedicated
wire to the capacitor (without fuses, switches, etc). Keep that wire as
short as possible, and make sure it is a fat wire. Run a dedicated wire
from the minus from the capacitor to the metal case of the regulator, to
make sure the loop stays always closed. Do not connect anything else to
the capacitor.
Let me know how this works out.
Frans
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:38 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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I wrote:
Quote: | Jeff, the best way to avoid this kind of troubles again, is to connect
the C tab to the B tab on the alternator,
|
Oops. In case it is not an obvious typo: I mean regulator instead of
alternator.
Frans
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:23 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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|
Ok, I assumed it was similar to most motorcycle regulators. Hence the
problems of disconnecting the battery and all loads while the regulator is
operating does not exist. Otherwise, I do not have experience with the Rotax
regulator. The method below makes sense to me.
-Greg
--> <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
On 04/09/2010 12:12 AM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
Quote: | These are good points from Frans. Just an additional comment. IF this
is a shunt regulator (I think it is),
|
It is not. It uses phase cutting (or just call it PWM). Hence the absolute
need for a large capacitor at the output.
Agree with your points about the battery.
That's why I recommended to test the voltage without the battery connected.
If it reads a correct voltage, we can assume the alternator is good, we can
fairly assume that the regulator works (although it may fail under load, but
is less likely). If the voltage does not read correct, we can pinpoint our
trouble shooting to the alternator and regulator and don't have to worry
about faulty wiring or batteries.
Regardless of the outcome, we can narrow down our search significantly.
Frans
_
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Jeff(at)rmmm.net Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:49 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
|
|
Frans,
I understand what you are saying about the +B & C connections... good
points, but keep in mind my bird has been flying perfectly in it's
current wiring form for over 200 hours. Just recent has this trouble
come out.
I will be changing the C wire direct to the battery.
Thanks,
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
On Apr 9, 2010, at 3:06 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
Quote: |
>
On 04/09/2010 02:21 AM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Tonight before it got too dark I managed to check the following
> with the
> engine at 2200 rpm's. At first after charging Battery, the voltage
> check
> direct on the terminals was 12.5. The GG alternator inputs on the
> regulator we're 15.7 AC so I'm assuming the engine is producing
> correct
> voltage. I checked the +B out of the regulator and it read only .55
> volts DC. Moved the engine up to 3000 RPM's and the +G only went
> to .55
All right. Alternator is good. Battery is good. Regulator doesn't
work.
But wait! This doesn't necessarily mean that the regulator is faulty.
Based on your tests I strongly suspect you have a wiring problem.
Without digging into the documentation: the +B should be connected to
your battery, so it should read AT LEAST the battery voltage, i.e.
11.5
Volts.
Furthermore, the regulator has a connector labeled C, and this is its
reference input. This is where it measures the battery voltage, and
uses
this as a decision point how much of the juice of the alternator it
should go "let through".
So, in order for the regulator to work correctly, the C lead should be
definitily be connected to the battery somehow. Ideally, it runs
with a
separate wire to the battery, but most folks simply tie it up to the
+B
lead, which is supposed to be connected to the battery anyway. (This
is
ok, but ignores the voltage drop over the battery cable, which is
minimal in most setups, so for sake of simplicity, just ty it all
together at the output of the regulator).
So, my next suspect is that the C connector is not carrying battery
voltage as well. Which is very bad:
In this condition, the regulator "thinks" that the battery voltage is
way too low, and cranks up the output. But regardless how much it
tries,
the C connector will never read the correct voltage since it is not
connected properly. So, even if it outputs 20 Volts, it still thinks
that it should try harder because it measures "a far too low
voltage" on
the C connector. You won't notice this, as the output of the regulator
is not connected to the battery.
I hate to tell you this, but in this condition it is well possible to
silently kill the regulator. After that point it will cease outputting
anything at all. And if you replace your regulator, you will kill the
new one as well instantly. Alas, this may be your current situation...
So. What you need to do to get out of this mess:
1) Double check that the minus of the battery is connected to the
metal
case of the regulator. Also check that the minus of the capacitor is
connected to the metal case of the regulator.
2) Don't replace the regulator yet. Make sure that, without the engine
running, but the main (battery and alternator) switches to ON, you
measure on the output of the regulator the battery voltage (anything
above 11 Volt is ok). If this is not the case, the regulator is simply
not connected to the battery. It doesn't matter whether the
regulator is
defect or not, the output should read battery voltage if it is
connected
correctly to the battery. Correct your wiring, switches, relais,
fuses,
CB's until you read battery voltage at the output of the regulator.
Yes,
all this with the engine OFF, but with the switches in flight
condition.
Proceed only to the next step if you have fixed this problem.
3) Run the engine. Measure again. Voltage should increase above 13
Volts. If it does, you most likely have solved the problem. If it
doesn't, you have killed your new regulator and should get a new one.
Most likely you have killed your previous regulator in the same way,
but
it doesn't hurt to test it again now you have fixed your wiring. Maybe
you are lucky and it has still some life in it, otherwise you have to
buy a new regulator again.
Oh, and while you are at it, replace the big capacitor as well. If
it is
has been destroyed (which is likely in the overvoltage condition it
may
have experienced) it will kill a new regulator in a short time.
Note to readers: Yes, you CAN disconnect the regulator from the
battery,
but ONLY if you make sure that the capacitor stays connected to the
regulator at all times, and that the C connector is connected to the
capacitor as well, so the regulator "sees" what it is doing. The
capacitor acts as a dummy battery in this case.
Jeff, the best way to avoid this kind of troubles again, is to connect
the C tab to the B tab on the alternator, and run from there a
dedicated
wire to the capacitor (without fuses, switches, etc). Keep that wire
as
short as possible, and make sure it is a fat wire. Run a dedicated
wire
from the minus from the capacitor to the metal case of the
regulator, to
make sure the loop stays always closed. Do not connect anything else
to
the capacitor.
Let me know how this works out.
Frans
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk. Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On 04/09/2010 04:48 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
Quote: | I understand what you are saying about the +B & C connections... good
points, but keep in mind my bird has been flying perfectly in it's
current wiring form for over 200 hours. Just recent has this trouble
come out.
|
Yes, I understand this, so I assume that something got broken in
between. Corroded contact, broken wire, that sort of things. The
regulator can just not charge the battery if it is not connected to the
battery, it is as simple as that. If you read no battery voltage at the
B+ tab, it simply means that the battery is not connected to the
regulator, and hence can not be charged.
I must assume that the battery has been connected properly in the past,
so something must have gone broken.
Quote: | I will be changing the C wire direct to the battery.
|
Before you do that, make sure that you read battery voltage at the B+
connector. This is where your battery receives alternator current, if
you measure no voltage here, it simply means the battery is not
connected to the regulator at all.
For the moment, keep the C wire connected to the B+ wire.
Just follow the troubleshooting steps I explained, in the correct order.
Succes,
Frans
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On 04/09/2010 04:48 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
Quote: |
I understand what you are saying about the +B & C connections... good
points, but keep in mind my bird has been flying perfectly in it's
current wiring form for over 200 hours. Just recent has this trouble
come out.
|
Yes, I understand this, so I assume that something got broken in
between. Corroded contact, broken wire, that sort of things. The
regulator can just not charge the battery if it is not connected to the
battery, it is as simple as that. If you read no battery voltage at the
B+ tab, it simply means that the battery is not connected to the
regulator, and hence can not be charged. And that is what is happing, right?
I must assume that the battery has been connected properly in the past,
so something must have gone broken.
Quote: | I will be changing the C wire direct to the battery.
|
Before you do that, make sure that you read battery voltage at the B+
connector. This is where your battery receives alternator current, if
you measure no voltage here, it simply means the battery is not
connected to the regulator at all.
For the moment, keep the C wire connected to the B+ wire.
Just follow the troubleshooting steps I explained, in the correct order.
Succes,
Frans
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Jeff,
Checking the suggesting wiring scheme for the Rotax installation in the
Europa manual, it shows two 30A slow-blow fuses between the battery and the
R-B-C connection on the regulator. One on either side of the master switch,
both located under the cowling. If the schematic is a reference to location
(not necessarily true, depending on implementation), one may be next to the
regulator, and the other one may be next to the battery isolator or
(non-starter side) of the starter solenoid. One of these in a blown state is
the most likely culprint of your problem, in my estimation. Please check
these two fuses. If already done....this message will self destruct in 12.7
seconds....
Happy regulator luck,
Greg Fuchs
_____________________________
........
Is there any other reason anyone can think of that may cause the +B
regulator output to be only putting out a half of volt?
Your inputs are very welcome!
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush.
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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On 04/09/2010 10:04 PM, Greg Fuchs wrote:
Quote: | Checking the suggesting wiring scheme for the Rotax installation in the
Europa manual, it shows two 30A slow-blow fuses between the battery and the
R-B-C connection on the regulator. One on either side of the master switch,
both located under the cowling. If the schematic is a reference to location
(not necessarily true, depending on implementation), one may be next to the
regulator, and the other one may be next to the battery isolator or
(non-starter side) of the starter solenoid. One of these in a blown state is
the most likely culprint of your problem, in my estimation.
|
This is very well possible, just as I said, there is no connection
between the battery and the regulator.
The only odd thing here is that there is no voltage on the output of the
regulator. If the regulator was wired according to the books, then the
RBC connectors are tied together, and connected to the capacitor which
should be hard wired to the regulator. In this case, with a blown fuse,
you would expect a correct (but useless) 13.7 Volts at the B+ tab, and a
12 Volt at the battery. But Jeff doesn't see a voltage on the output,
indicating that there is more of a problem than just a blown fuse. I
suspect that the capacitor and/or C connector is behind the fuse, and
the regulator has subsequently been destroyed.
I think we will hear some more soon.
Frans
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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As I lurk in the shadows and my ignorance, I can't help but be in awe
of the technical expertise and understanding written as I read this
thread...
Fred
A194
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas Guest
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Fred,
Very nice. I seem to remember a LOT of helpful emails coming from a certain
person with the same name as yours!
It is great to have a wealth of skilled people from all walks of life and
capabilities as close away as the forum, isn't it?
I am in awe myself.
Regards,
Greg
..I can't help but be in awe of the technical expertise and understanding
written as I read this thread...
Fred
A194
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h&jeuropa
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 647
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Electronic Mind Needed |
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Jeff,
I just read your post where you are going to tie the C lead to the battery. Be aware that the C lead not only is used to sense the battery voltage but also powers the electronics in the regulator. If you have the C lead permanently connected to the battery, when the engine isn't running, it will slowly discharge the battery.
Jim Butcher
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