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Paint system choices

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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: Paint system choices

It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather, and 

the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme and most 

importantly, a paint system to commit to.



I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems like a 

lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others the whole 

system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further information.



I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and working 

with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had access to the 

aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft top coat products.  

But it would be nice to have a local resource I'm thinking.



Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please contact me 

directly if more appropriate.



Thanks in advance,

Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson

jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: Paint system choices

Bill (and others):  I had painted cars as a kid and thought I was pretty good so I decided to paint the 10.  I used the Loehle system throughout including his hole filler (works very well with minimum "coats".)  I started with a turbine HVLP but was getting crummy results so went back to what I used as a kid (big compressor, refriged air, but used the new lower pressure guns with multiple tips).  It did not come out as well as I hoped: 1) booth was too small especially for the fuselage. 2) I painted it over a long period of time so some of the colors don't exactly match (? different humidity, ? improper mixing, ? different batches from Loehle, ???)and, 3) most importantly, shitty lighting because of the too small booth  and lack of money to really buy good lights. To me lighting is the most important factor in applying good coats. If I had it to do over I would do it after the plane was together, do it in my hanger in a large very well lit temporary booth.  No, I take that back. If I had it to do over I would pay someone to do it!!!  If you have any specific questions please feel free to call me (207) 322-6167.  Jay Rowe 40301

---- Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather, and 

 the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme and most 

 importantly, a paint system to commit to.

 

 I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems like a 

 lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others the whole 

 system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further information.

 

 I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and working 

 with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had access to the 

 aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft top coat products.  

 But it would be nice to have a local resource I'm thinking.

 

 Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please contact me 

 directly if more appropriate.

 

 Thanks in advance,

 Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: Paint system choices

Yeah, I painted model airplanes as a kid and quickly realized that I was 

a bulider and flyer  but not a finisher.  The advent of Monokote and 

it's many descendants saved me.  I feel your pain.



I swore up and down that I would be farming out the paint but finances 

and some sort of misguided pride has me determined to do it myself.  I 

lack the skills and the patience but I have the space so I'm just going 

to have learn to take the time to learn, prep, and paint.  Plus I have a 

Maule that REALLY needs a nice new cover and paint job.  Flying in the 

rain challenged the original paint.  We'll see.



Sounds like doing it all at one time is good - but it seems that doing 

it in parts is easier.  Putting those 2 thing together with lot's of 

light  looks like a good approach.



Bill



jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bill (and others):  I had painted cars as a kid and thought I was pretty good so I decided to paint the 10.  I used the Loehle system throughout including his hole filler (works very well with minimum "coats".)  I started with a turbine HVLP but was getting crummy results so went back to what I used as a kid (big compressor, refriged air, but used the new lower pressure guns with multiple tips).  It did not come out as well as I hoped: 1) booth was too small especially for the fuselage. 2) I painted it over a long period of time so some of the colors don't exactly match (? different humidity, ? improper mixing, ? different batches from Loehle, ???)and, 3) most importantly, shitty lighting because of the too small booth  and lack of money to really buy good lights. To me lighting is the most important factor in applying good coats. If I had it to do over I would do it after the plane was together, do it in my hanger in a large very well lit temporary booth.  No, I take that back. If I had it to do over I would pay someone to do it!!!  If you have any specific questions please feel free to call me (207) 322-6167.  Jay Rowe 40301

 ---- Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote: 

   

> 

>

> It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather, and 

> the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme and most 

> importantly, a paint system to commit to.

>

> I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems like a 

> lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others the whole 

> system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further information.

>

> I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and working 

> with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had access to the 

> aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft top coat products.  

> But it would be nice to have a local resource I'm thinking.

>

> Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please contact me 

> directly if more appropriate.

>

> Thanks in advance,

> Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson

>

>

martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: Paint system choices

Most of the modern paint systems will work well on metal airplanes.   I have used both HVLP and high pressure systems.  I found that the HVLP systems worked best on fabric surfaces and the high pressure worked best on metal airplanes. (note fabric jobs require a flex additive).

  I would like to advise you to use caution when using modern urethane paints because of the  toxic materials used in them (methyl  ethel keotone) . I would suggest you consider an outside fresh air supply instead of charcoal masks.  the charcoal masks have a very short life and will not filter the toxic  vapors.  I speak from experience, I now suffer from a tremor in my right arm and hand caused by the hexamethaline di iso cyanates used in all of the urethane paints.  Note also use surgeons gloves (the blue ones).

 Good luck.

 Dick Martin

 RV8 N233M

 the fast one



 On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)>

 

It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather, and the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme and most importantly, a paint system to commit to.



I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems like a lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others the whole system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further information.

 

I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and working with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had access to the aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft top coat products.  But it would be nice to have a local resource I'm thinking.

 

Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please contact me directly if more appropriate.



Thanks in advance,

Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson   

  List Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: Paint system choices

The advice is well taken.  I do have a fresh air system (one of the Axis 

systems from Spruce with fresh air and gun supply combined into one).  I 

think that makes this a 1 person spary operation however.  I will be 

getting the 'blue' gloves though not sure of their composition yet.  And 

a suit and full face mask will be used.



If only I was ready to shoot paint.



Thanks.

Bill "driving the slow one" Watson



Richard Martin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Most of the modern paint systems will work well on metal 

 airplanes. / / I have used both HVLP and high pressure systems.  I 

 found that the HVLP systems worked best on fabric surfaces and the 

 high pressure worked best on metal airplanes. (note fabric jobs 

 require a flex additive).

 I would like to advise you to use caution when using modern urethane 

 paints because of the  toxic materials used in them (methyl  ethel 

 keotone) . I would suggest you consider an outside fresh air supply 

 instead of charcoal masks.  the charcoal masks have a very short life 

 and will not filter the toxic  vapors.  I speak from experience, I now 

 suffer from a tremor in my right arm and hand caused by the 

 hexamethaline di iso cyanates used in all of the urethane paints.  

 Note also use surgeons gloves (the blue ones).

 Good luck.

 Dick Martin

 RV8 N233M

 the fast one

 On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson 

 <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>> wrote:



     

     <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com <mailto:MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>>



     It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather,

     and the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme

     and most importantly, a paint system to commit to.



     I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems

     like a lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others

     the whole system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further

     information.



     I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and

     working with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had

     access to the aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft

     top coat products.  But it would be nice to have a local resource

     I'm thinking.



     Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please

     contact me directly if more appropriate.



     Thanks in advance,

     Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson

     List Un/Subscription,

     www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"

     target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

     ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

     Matt Dralle, List Admin.

     =====





 *

 *

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: Paint system choices

I have to second Dick's comments with a hearty "Do not discount the importance of protection from chemicals".  Back in the days of Lacquers and Testor Model cement, things were a bit more basic with a higher survival rate.  The newer urethane and iso-cyanates should always (without exception) have painter protection of the eyes, nasal cavities, lungs and skin.  My tremors were central nervous system pains that appeared immediately after using charcoal filters and no sealed hood.  The cost is a worthy investment in years of enjoyable flight.  We are negotiating language for our professional painters at the airline to have annual chemical workups because so many die early from cancers in a most alarming rate.  

   

As a collective group, we could pool resources and get a system which can be passed from builder to builder like the composite countersink bit.  

   

John Cox - Ready with the first $300.00  and five Tyvek bodies suits for the next five participants in the size of your choice.  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Martin

 Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:38 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Paint system choices  

  

     

Most of the modern paint systems will work well on metal airplanes.   I have used both HVLP and high pressure systems.  I found that the HVLP systems worked best on fabric surfaces and the high pressure worked best on metal airplanes. (note fabric jobs require a flex additive).  

    

I would like to advise you to use caution when using modern urethane paints because of the  toxic materials used in them (methyl  ethel keotone) . I would suggest you consider an outside fresh air supply instead of charcoal masks.  the charcoal masks have a very short life and will not filter the toxic  vapors.  I speak from experience, I now suffer from a tremor in my right arm and hand caused by the hexamethaline di iso cyanates used in all of the urethane paints.  Note also use surgeons gloves (the blue ones).

 Good luck.  

    

Dick Martin  

    

RV8 N233M  

    

the fast one  

    

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:  

--> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com (MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com)>

 

 It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather, and the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme and most importantly, a paint system to commit to.

 

 I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems like a lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others the whole system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further information.

 

 I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and working with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had access to the aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft top coat products.  But it would be nice to have a local resource I'm thinking.

 

 Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please contact me directly if more appropriate.

 

 Thanks in advance,

 Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson     

List Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====

  <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  

  

  

   [quote]            - The RV10-List Email Forum -[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[b]               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/b]   --> http://forums.matronics.com[b]             - List Contribution Web Site -[/b]  Thank you for your generous support![/b]                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b]   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b] [b]

Lew Gallagher

Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Paint system choices

Hey Bill,



The "blue gloves" I use are green:  WW Grainger, "TouchNTuff" (Ansell), 92-500, medium.  I started using them years ago when I asked EMS workers what they used since they are very aids aware and use the best.  I happily discovered later that since they are Nitrile, they stand up to thinners better, but still give a nice touch.



The chemical scare with urethane is real -- MANY years ago I was working in a cancer research lab where we gave mice subcutaneous pops of urethane to give them lung cancer so they could study the tumors.  Most forget to cover up their skin.



I have an explosion proof exhaust fan in my shop and get lots of cross draft, cover up pretty good, use a fresh carbon cartridge every time I shoot urethane, no hood, no problems.  Painted it in pieces.  I used automotive acrylic enamel just to keep the weight down.  (basecoat/clearcoat on cars, I use three coats of each and it adds up)



The way I paint, it is very labor intensive, and you may want to listen to those who say "hire someone!", but some of us take pleasure in the process -- something about unwrapping after shooting is almost perverse. Oh, make sure you use good automotive masking tape -- especially around the windows inside and out -- sticky and tough, but won't leave residue.  My paint shop's good tape is light green now.



Come see us!  Later, - Lew



Later, - Lew

_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: Paint system choices

Those would be Nitril gloves.  You can get them from HF also in the Nitril or, for double protection, nitril/latex combination.



  This is also a good system for fresh air without having multiple hoses being dragged around.



http://www.eastwood.com/pure-air-2000-with-opti-fit-respirator-med.html

  Just be sure your compressor has fresh air.  I pulled the cheesy little paper filter off of my compressor and plumbed a new intake from outside and well above the building.  I also used a water filter with a paper element for a cheap DIY inlet air filter that works great.  You could even use a charcoal filter if you really wanted.  My compressor now has shorter run intervals and is staying cooler because it doesn't have to suck so hard.



http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkk/R-100471282/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053



Michael



--

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:07 am Post subject: Paint system choices

I'd be inclined to prep and prime in parts and look to shoot the  

topcoat in as few sessions as possible.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Yeah, I painted model airplanes as a kid and quickly realized that I  

 was a bulider and flyer  but not a finisher.  The advent of Monokote  

 and it's many descendants saved me.  I feel your pain.



 I swore up and down that I would be farming out the paint but  

 finances and some sort of misguided pride has me determined to do it  

 myself.  I lack the skills and the patience but I have the space so  

 I'm just going to have learn to take the time to learn, prep, and  

 paint.  Plus I have a Maule that REALLY needs a nice new cover and  

 paint job.  Flying in the rain challenged the original paint.  We'll  

 see.



 Sounds like doing it all at one time is good - but it seems that  

 doing it in parts is easier.  Putting those 2 thing together with  

 lot's of light  looks like a good approach.



 Bill



 jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com wrote:

> Bill (and others):  I had painted cars as a kid and thought I was  

> pretty good so I decided to paint the 10.  I used the Loehle system  

> throughout including his hole filler (works very well with minimum  

> "coats".)  I started with a turbine HVLP but was getting crummy  

> results so went back to what I used as a kid (big compressor,  

> refriged air, but used the new lower pressure guns with multiple  

> tips).  It did not come out as well as I hoped: 1) booth was too  

> small especially for the fuselage. 2) I painted it over a long  

> period of time so some of the colors don't exactly match (?  

> different humidity, ? improper mixing, ? different batches from  

> Loehle, ???)and, 3) most importantly, shitty lighting because of  

> the too small booth  and lack of money to really buy good lights.  

> To me lighting is the most important factor in applying good coats.  

> If I had it to do over I would do it after the plane was together,  

> do it in my hanger in a large very well lit temporary booth.  No, I  

> take that!

 back. If I had it to do over I would pay someone to do it!!!  If you  

 have any specific questions please feel free to call me (207)  

 322-6167.  Jay Rowe 40301

> ---- Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:

>> 

>> >

>>

>> It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather,  

>> and the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme  

>> and most importantly, a paint system to commit to.

>>

>> I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems  

>> like a lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others  

>> the whole system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further  

>> information.

>>

>> I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and  

>> working with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had  

>> access to the aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft  

>> top coat products.  But it would be nice to have a local resource  

>> I'm thinking.

>>

>> Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please  

>> contact me directly if more appropriate.

>>

>> Thanks in advance,

>> Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: Paint system choices

Hi Bill,



I've been working with the Loehle system, so far on the inside of the  

cabin top and the interior of the plane.  I plan to use it as well on  

the exterior.  What I can tell you is that his black primer on the  

composite parts is a huge help.  It is high build and very glossy.   

Low spots and pinholes are easily seen after sanding... and visibility  

is everything in this process (here I concur with Jay) so lighting is  

extremely important.  Mike Loehle himself is very helpful, and that  

help is as important to the novice painter as the paint itself.



Jeff Carpenter

40304



On Apr 14, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Bill Mauledriver Watson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 It's that time - paint.  I have a HVLP turbine system, rebreather,  

 and the space to setup a booth of some type.  Need a paint scheme  

 and most importantly, a paint system to commit to.



 I sure would like to get some feedback on Loehle's system.  Seems  

 like a lot of people use the pinhole filler (John G)  and others the  

 whole system (Rick).  I've contacted them for some further  

 information.



 I'm also looking at going to my local Dupont distributer and working  

 with them. It wasn't  clear to him or me that he had access to the  

 aircraft line of products, at least not the aircraft top coat  

 products.  But it would be nice to have a local resource I'm thinking.



 Any and all suggestions or guidance is appreciated.  Please contact  

 me directly if more appropriate.



 Thanks in advance,

 Bill "head spinning before inhaling any fumes" Watson

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