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rawheels
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN
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 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: Windshield Replacement |
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There is a pretty huge cost savings between the preformed acrylic windshields and the windshield kit (.090 lexan and a pattern) from Kitfox. Is forming a new windshield from flat stock something that a first timer can actually do? Or, am I going to end up buying multiple sheets of flat stock trying to accomplish an impossible task?
Also, after doing a search on previous posts it looks like some have used .060" and some .090" lexan. Sounded like the .060" was a lot easier to use. If so, should I see about the possibility of just buying a pattern from Kitfox and try to figure out where I can get some of the thiner stuff locally (or ask the McBeans if the thiner is an option)?
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Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN |
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject: Windshield Replacement |
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Ryan, I built my own using the old one as a pattern and used thicker than .060. I used something other than std Lexan or Plexi. I can't remember what it is. It is softer and more flexible than lexan or Plexi. I would look up what it is but I'd hesitate to recommend it as school isn't out yet on it. It did craze at the top corner bends. I actually built mine in 2 pieces. The top of the cabin is tinted Lexan, windshield clear what ever it is.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 REBUILT
Rockford, IL
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:56 PM, rawheels <rawheels(at)yahoo.com (rawheels(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "rawheels" <rawheels(at)yahoo.com (rawheels(at)yahoo.com)>
There is a pretty huge cost savings between the preformed acrylic windshields and the windshield kit (.090 lexan and a pattern) from Kitfox. Is forming a new windshield from flat stock something that a first timer can actually do? Or, am I going to end up buying multiple sheets of flat stock trying to accomplish an impossible task?
Also, after doing a search on previous posts it looks like some have used .060" and some .090" lexan. Sounded like the .060" was a lot easier to use. If so, should I see about the possibility of just buying a pattern from Kitfox and try to figure out where I can get some of the thiner stuff locally (or ask the McBeans if the thiner is an option)?
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
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Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
[quote][b]
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: Windshield Replacement |
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Ryan,
There is no set pattern for the windshield. Every builder would set rivet/screw spacing, exact cowl placement, etc. They are essentially a one off design, but once made the pattern will work forever on that particular Kitfox.
Yes anyone can fit one by following the instructions in the builders manual. John might be able to help there.
Regarding thickness. The .060" was standard on all regular Model IVs and earlier models. The .093" was standard on the Speedster and allowed for the higher VNE. I understand it is the only limiting factor there. The .093 is a bit more able to withstand the speeds without caving in a bit in the front so many opted for that and I suspect that is where you read of the problems installing and also the greater tendency for crazing at the bend. I recently rechecked the spec sheets for the minimum recommended bend radius and it is 100 times the material thickness. Example, the .060 would have a minumum ideal bend of 6" radius. We are seriously over stressing this material in our application. For what it's worth, I plan on using the .060 on my new (old) model IV. Also there are a number of brands of Polycarbonate, Lexan is one. I plan on using the variety sold by a local supplier.
I am presently out of town or would check the manual for more specific instructions. If you don't find help in that area before I get home, post again.
Lowell
--- On Tue, 4/27/10, rawheels <rawheels(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: rawheels <rawheels(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Windshield Replacement
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 10:56 AM
"rawheels" <rawheels(at)yahoo.com>
There is a pretty huge cost savings between the preformed
acrylic windshields and the windshield kit (.090 lexan and a
pattern) from Kitfox. Is forming a new windshield from
flat stock something that a first timer can actually
do? Or, am I going to end up buying multiple sheets of
flat stock trying to accomplish an impossible task?
Also, after doing a search on previous posts it looks like
some have used .060" and some .090" lexan. Sounded
like the .060" was a lot easier to use. If so, should
I see about the possibility of just buying a pattern from
Kitfox and try to figure out where I can get some of the
thiner stuff locally (or ask the McBeans if the thiner is an
option)?
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
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Av8r3400
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Replacement |
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If you have ever seen or even better flown in a plane with the molded windshield/skylight, you will easily be able to justify the cost. There is no comparison.
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Thanks,
Av8r3400
Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: Windshield Replacement |
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.hmmessage P {margin:0px;padding:0px;} body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Lowell,
I disagree about the thickness, the Model IV's were .093 inch and the Speedster was .118. They had problems with cracking and changed the Speedster to .093. Its in the Service
Bulleton #34. I replaced my windshield with the Tapp Plastic .118 inch (3mm). Annealed it with heat gun and it has held up for many years. If I hit a bird, would like the thicker windshield. The increase in airspeed Vne of 140 for the Speedster as compared to the IV's 125 was the extra windshield thickness.
Check out link below.
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_bulletins/sb34.htm
[quote] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:00:01 -0700
From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Windshield Replacement
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lowell FITT <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
Ryan,
There is no set pattern for the windshield. Every builder would set rivet/screw spacing, exact cowl placement, etc. They are essentially a one off design, but once made the pattern will work forever on that particular Kitfox.
Yes anyone can fit one by following the instructions in the builders manual. John might be able to help there.
Regarding thickness. The .060" was standard on all regular Model IVs and earlier models. The .093" was standard on the Speedster and allowed for the higher VNE. I understand it is the only limiting factor there. The .093 is a bit more able to withstand the speeds without caving in a bit in the front so many opted for that and I suspect that is where you read of the problems installing and also the greater tendency for crazing at the bend. I recently rechecked the spec sheets for the minimum recommended bend radius and it is 100 times the material thickness. Example, the .060 would have a minumum ideal bend of 6" radius. We are seriously over stressing this material in our application. For what it's worth, I plan on using the .060 on my new (old) model IV. Also there are a number of brands of Polycarbonate, Lexan is one. I plan on using the variety sold by a local supplier.
I am presently out of town or would check the manual for more specific instructions. If you don't find help in that area before I get home, post again.
Lowell
--- On Tue, 4/27/10, rawheels <rawheels(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: rawheels <rawheels(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: Windshield Replacement
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 10:56 AM
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> "rawheels" <rawheels(at)yahoo.com>
>
> There is a pretty huge cost savings between the preformed
> acrylic windshields and the windshield kit (.090 lexan and a
> pattern) from Kitfox. Is forming a new windshield from
> flat stock something that a first timer can actually
> do? Or, am I going to end up buying multiple sheets of
> flat stock trying to accomplish an impossible task?
>
> Also, after doing a search on previous posts it looks like
> some have used .060" and some .090" lexan. Sounded
> like the .060" was a lot easier to use. If so, should
> I see about the possibility of just buying a pattern from
> Kitfox and try to figure out where I can get some of the
> thiner stuff locally (or ask the McBeans if the thiner is an
> option)?
>
> --------
> Ryan Wheeler
> Kitfox IV-1200
> Indianapolis, IN
>
>
>
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Replacement |
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| Av8r3400 wrote: | | If you have ever seen or even better flown in a plane with the molded windshield/skylight, you will easily be able to justify the cost. There is no comparison. |
Lexan 3 mil is about 100$ for a 4 x 8 sheet that is 50 to 60 $ a windshield.
Takes about 1 hour to mark and cut, trim, plane and sand the edges.
About 30 mins to remove the old one and 1 to 2 hours to re-install.
I agree with Clint.I use on model 4 3 mil and 2 mil on models 1,2 and 3.
I changed doors on a model 2 last year to a model Iv style and made about 3 to 4 inches shoulder room. used I think 1 mil lexan for doors.
I have not found 3 mil to crack/craze any easier that 2 mil but stress relief with a heat guy sure helps.
To each their own.
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Replacement |
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| Quote: | Is forming a new windshield from flat stock something that a first timer can actually do? Or, am I going to end up buying multiple sheets of flat stock trying to accomplish an impossible task?
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Ryan, Lexan is easy to work with. It is very strong and I don't think you could ruin it except by cutting it too small.
For someone that has not made a Kitfox wind screen before it would be difficult to do with out the pattern and instructions. It comes from the kitfox factory with a rough pattern marked on it where to cut to get the shape you can actually bend and fit to your plane. Then you can see where to trim it to fit your plane exactly.
It you don't have the builder's manual and a rough pattern you will be time and money ahead to get those from Kitfox aircraft LLC.
I ordered one way back when and it came rolled up into a tube about 8 inches in diameter. Watch out when you cut the twine cause it pops right out into a flat sheet.
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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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rawheels
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Windshield Replacement |
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Well, sounds like the do-it-yourself method is worth a try. With shipping included, I can try it three times and still be money ahead vs the preformed. So, seems like a sensible option. Thanks for all the input.
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WurlyBird
Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Windshield Replacement |
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I had to replace the windshield on my KF3 that I bought already built. The "pattern" that comes on the windshield is about as loose as a pattern can be and still fit all the possible variations on this plane so it is a fair amount of trimming if you don't have the old windshield to use as a pattern. It took me a long afternoon to figure everything out and get it installed (I as well have no previous plane building experience). Once I got the green house portion straight I secured it with a few screws and then started test fitting, bending, trimming, test fitting, bending, trimming. . . Take your time and it is no problem.
Don't make the mistake I almost made, make sure you install your front cowling as this is what determines the curvature in the windshield. Otherwise you will have fitting issues later.
James
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Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl. |
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