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Ron.McGann(at)ausawd.com
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 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: RV-10 Fire and Annual results |
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Phil,
Please let us know what you find wrt vapour sensors. I know I would certainly be interested. My experience is that if the smell builds up gradually, you often don’t notice it all. Geez, I even remember that proseal didn’t smell that bad after a lengthy session on the tanks. So a separate warning would be good for me.
For those that may be interested, I just finished my annual. No flames on this please, but the ONLY issue I discovered was that one of the hinge pins securing the bottom cowl had vibrated loose in flight and disappeared somewhere over Greater Sydney. I know that many (ie most) replace the bottom hinge with a flange/nutplates, but I never got around to it. No missing or cracked eyelets, just no pin. If you go with the Vans standard build, make sure you lock wire the bottom pin in place.
Cheers
Ron
VH-XRM flying in Oz
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, 10 May 2010 1:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-10 Fire
I’ll have to ask Todd, but the changes I’m aware of are:
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>Fuel filter was not installed in the tunnel. Instead he opt’d for one fuel filter in each wing root.
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>The fuel valve was a 6 port fuel valve. Which I believe is a requirement for the LS1 and 2 engines??
It makes sense that the fuel pump would be sealed, since it’s knows it’ll be flammable environment.
I just checked my flap motor and it’s got 4 ports on it too – scary. I’d like to see a sealed motor.
The tunnel area is like the bilge of an in-board boat. When fuel vapors build up in that enclosed area and then a engine start (or some other spark event) is attempted, the spark results in a massive explosion. It wouldn’t take too much of a leak or cracked hard aluminum line to fill the tunnel with vapors. In fact, Todd never mentioned a rough engine or anything that would indicate inadequate fuel making its way to the engine.
I’ve been doing some research today to see if I could find (or identify how to build) a light-weight and cheap vapor sensor that would flag a warning light on the panel.
Phil
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 9:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the components of the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was the Vans motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also always run a good test when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on the fittings.
[quote]
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glastar(at)gmx.net
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:36 am Post subject: RV-10 Fire and Annual results |
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I use following item as a CO monitor, however it does detect benzene as
well so should be ok to detect fuel vapour.
http://www.conrad-uk.com/ enter on the left hand in the part no 117510
google is your friend, so found it as well here:
<http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/KEMO-ELECTRONIC-B051-/28-8078>
Mine is hooked onto an LED blinking, needs about 1 min to warm up but
then works like a charm
Werner
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:09 am Post subject: RV-10 Fire and Annual results |
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Interesting, I may pick one of these up for the tunnel and interface it with my VP. A while back someone had talked about using one of these for a fire detection system under the hood....
http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=121
Michael
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:05 am Post subject: RV-10 Fire and Annual results |
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to prevent this, use a longer (9") hinge pin and bend a sharpened 90 (1/2") on the end. Rivet a hinge knuckle to contain the end on the bottom ledge of the firewall.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGann, Ron
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 9:17 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-10 Fire and Annual results
Phil,
Please let us know what you find wrt vapour sensors. I know I would certainly be interested. My experience is that if the smell builds up gradually, you often don’t notice it all. Geez, I even remember that proseal didn’t smell that bad after a lengthy session on the tanks. So a separate warning would be good for me.
For those that may be interested, I just finished my annual. No flames on this please, but the ONLY issue I discovered was that one of the hinge pins securing the bottom cowl had vibrated loose in flight and disappeared somewhere over Greater Sydney. I know that many (ie most) replace the bottom hinge with a flange/nutplates, but I never got around to it. No missing or cracked eyelets, just no pin. If you go with the Vans standard build, make sure you lock wire the bottom pin in place.
Cheers
Ron
VH-XRM flying in Oz
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, 10 May 2010 1:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-10 Fire
I’ll have to ask Todd, but the changes I’m aware of are:
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>Fuel filter was not installed in the tunnel. Instead he opt’d for one fuel filter in each wing root.
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>The fuel valve was a 6 port fuel valve. Which I believe is a requirement for the LS1 and 2 engines??
It makes sense that the fuel pump would be sealed, since it’s knows it’ll be flammable environment.
I just checked my flap motor and it’s got 4 ports on it too – scary. I’d like to see a sealed motor.
The tunnel area is like the bilge of an in-board boat. When fuel vapors build up in that enclosed area and then a engine start (or some other spark event) is attempted, the spark results in a massive explosion. It wouldn’t take too much of a leak or cracked hard aluminum line to fill the tunnel with vapors. In fact, Todd never mentioned a rough engine or anything that would indicate inadequate fuel making its way to the engine.
I’ve been doing some research today to see if I could find (or identify how to build) a light-weight and cheap vapor sensor that would flag a warning light on the panel.
Phil
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 9:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
The engine was (?) an automotive V8 so it is unknown what the components of the tunnel are. One could expect that the flap motor was the Vans motor.I am going to plumb a shot of Halon to the tunnel. Also always run a good test when cleaning the fuel filter; use fuel lube on the fittings.
[quote]
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV-10 Fire
The flap motor has four holes venting the inside. The Aeroflow and Andair pumps are sealed by the looks of them.
From: dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 07:57:50 -0700
Subject: Re: RV-10 Fire
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
The latest on VAF says they should both be OK.
I put a couple drain holes in the tunnel just forward of the spar so at least a small leak wouldn't puddle.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)>
I've been watching that too... Sounds like he's burned but okay.
Not trying to speculate, but this event caused me to think through a
couple of topics.
Anyone know if the fuel boost pump and flap motors are explosion
resistant? If not, they probably should be since there are several fuel
lines that share the same enclosed airspace as both electrical items.
I was thinking this through earlier this morning and now I think the
RV-10 POH should say any smell of fuel in the cabin should immediately
mean no flaps and no boost pump.
For the record, I don't even know if he was operating either. Just
thinking through a gotcha scenario for the benefit of the group.
Phil
--
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