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marty_away(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin |
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Stormy,
I'm sure you meant the term AOPA 'RAG' as one of endearment. As one who pens my EAA chapter's rag, there is a lot of work that goes into it. If you're not one to appreciate some or any of the articles, all you have to do is dispose of it.
Yes, RV's are great planes, but one doesn't not build an RV in a day, nor does one have all the the Part 23 requirements, employee salaries, or company support (& liability) as OEMs do.
If I'd have bought, rather than start to build, I would have been flying 5 years ago...... And it's a bit harder to find an A/P to sign off a used RV, vice a used Cessna.
Please put the rocks down.
Marty Heller
RV-7, wiring....
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:59:15 -0400
Subject: Cessna & Vans
From: sportav8r(at)gmail.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Just got my latest AOPA rag, and was checking the specs on the new Cessna Corvalis TT versus the similar-looking and familiar RV-10...
The different missions of these two four-seaters are obvious, beginning with the prime objective of removing $644,000 plus tax from the back pocket of the Cessna buyer 
The 10 will get in and out of my 2000 foot grass strip with ease, nearly as well as my RV-6A; the TT better not even try.
Cruising at FL250 in pressurized comfort, the Corvalis ticks off the miles at 227 knots, while the RV-10 probably tops out at FL200 and a more modest 172 knots.
But, the 10 will carry 4 good-size people and 100 pounds of baggage with its fuel tanks full. For the same topped-tanks mission, the Cessna will carry two 180-pound men, one 104 # trophy wife, and she has to leave all her baggage behind - not even a purse. The guys have to leave their baggage behind, too, and no handheld transceivers, headsets, or charts can be accommodated without draining some fuel. A 464 pound useful load makes the TT a basically two person airplane if the tanks are full.
I'm not a -10 owner or builder (but I've sat in one at SnF) - yet I continue to be amazed at what Van has created for those willing to bang the rivets and sand & fill the fiberglass for a few years. "Total Performance" involves a whole lot more than just the sweet cruise speed and fairly good climb rates of Cessna's latest offering.
Wonder what -10 builders are coming up with for all-up costs to build their ships? Seems it would be darn hard to tie up 644k in a Vans...
-Stormy
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randy(at)djdist.com
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:39 am Post subject: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin |
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Fly naked! Carry more fuel!
Randy Utsey
RV-7
Charlotte, N.C.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marty Helller
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:14 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin
Stormy,
I'm sure you meant the term AOPA 'RAG' as one of endearment. As one who pens my EAA chapter's rag, there is a lot of work that goes into it. If you're not one to appreciate some or any of the articles, all you have to do is dispose of it.
Yes, RV's are great planes, but one doesn't not build an RV in a day, nor does one have all the the Part 23 requirements, employee salaries, or company support (& liability) as OEMs do.
If I'd have bought, rather than start to build, I would have been flying 5 years ago...... And it's a bit harder to find an A/P to sign off a used RV, vice a used Cessna.
Please put the rocks down.
Marty Heller
RV-7, wiring....
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:59:15 -0400
Subject: Cessna & Vans
From: sportav8r(at)gmail.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Just got my latest AOPA rag, and was checking the specs on the new Cessna Corvalis TT versus the similar-looking and familiar RV-10...
The different missions of these two four-seaters are obvious, beginning with the prime objective of removing $644,000 plus tax from the back pocket of the Cessna buyer
The 10 will get in and out of my 2000 foot grass strip with ease, nearly as well as my RV-6A; the TT better not even try.
Cruising at FL250 in pressurized comfort, the Corvalis ticks off the miles at 227 knots, while the RV-10 probably tops out at FL200 and a more modest 172 knots.
But, the 10 will carry 4 good-size people and 100 pounds of baggage with its fuel tanks full. For the same topped-tanks mission, the Cessna will carry two 180-pound men, one 104 # trophy wife, and she has to leave all her baggage behind - not even a purse. The guys have to leave their baggage behind, too, and no handheld transceivers, headsets, or charts can be accommodated without draining some fuel. A 464 pound useful load makes the TT a basically two person airplane if the tanks are full.
I'm not a -10 owner or builder (but I've sat in one at SnF) - yet I continue to be amazed at what Van has created for those willing to bang the rivets and sand & fill the fiberglass for a few years. "Total Performance" involves a whole lot more than just the sweet cruise speed and fairly good climb rates of Cessna's latest offering.
Wonder what -10 builders are coming up with for all-up costs to build their ships? Seems it would be darn hard to tie up 644k in a Vans...
-Stormy
| Quote: | | p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution |
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin |
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I think he meant 'mag'....
Sent from my iPhone
On May 28, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com (marty_away(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Stormy,
I'm sure you meant the term AOPA 'RAG' as one of endearment. As one who pens my EAA chapter's rag, there is a lot of work that goes into it. If you're not one to appreciate some or any of the articles, all you have to do is dispose of it.
Yes, RV's are great planes, but one doesn't not build an RV in a day, nor does one have all the the Part 23 requirements, employee salaries, or company support (& liability) as OEMs do.
If I'd have bought, rather than start to build, I would have been flying 5 years ago...... And it's a bit harder to find an A/P to sign off a used RV, vice a used Cessna.
Please put the rocks down.
Marty Heller
RV-7, wiring....
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:59:15 -0400
Subject: Cessna & Vans
From: [url=mailto:sportav8r(at)gmail.com]sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)[/url]
To: [url=mailto:rv-list(at)matronics.com]rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Just got my latest AOPA rag, and was checking the specs on the new Cessna Corvalis TT versus the similar-looking and familiar RV-10...
The different missions of these two four-seaters are obvious, beginning with the prime objective of removing $644,000 plus tax from the back pocket of the Cessna buyer
The 10 will get in and out of my 2000 foot grass strip with ease, nearly as well as my RV-6A; the TT better not even try.
Cruising at FL250 in pressurized comfort, the Corvalis ticks off the miles at 227 knots, while the RV-10 probably tops out at FL200 and a more modest 172 knots.
But, the 10 will carry 4 good-size people and 100 pounds of baggage with its fuel tanks full. For the same topped-tanks mission, the Cessna will carry two 180-pound men, one 104 # trophy wife, and she has to leave all her baggage behind - not even a purse. The guys have to leave their baggage behind, too, and no handheld transceivers, headsets, or charts can be accommodated without draining some fuel. A 464 pound useful load makes the TT a basically two person airplane if the tanks are full.
I'm not a -10 owner or builder (but I've sat in one at SnF) - yet I continue to be amazed at what Van has created for those willing to bang the rivets and sand & fill the fiberglass for a few years. "Total Performance" involves a whole lot more than just the sweet cruise speed and fairly good climb rates of Cessna's latest offering.
Wonder what -10 builders are coming up with for all-up costs to build their ships? Seems it would be darn hard to tie up 644k in a Vans...
-Stormy
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin |
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Marty-
"Rag" was a deliberate choice, and a mere (albeit slightly diminutive) colloquialism. Neither endearment nor disparagement were implied.
I took no umbrage over the article featuring the Cessna; like many others may have done, I took one glance at the pictures and said to myself, "Hey, that looks a bit like an RV-12. Wonder how they compare?" So I read the details in the magazine and on Van's site, and started doing a (literal) back-of-the-envelope comparison of the numbers. I have the rent check envelope right here if you want to see it
My conclusion was that, despite the visual similarities, the planes are widely different in cost, performance and mission profile, but the RV-10 need not feel ashamed of being the lower and slower of the two ships.
As a builder in the days of slow-build kits ("Here's your bauxite; make some aluminum and then shape it like this..."), I don't need reminding of the gulf that separates the homebuilding experience (and end result) from that of the spam factories. Oops, I said, "spam" - was that pejorative?
I see you modified my thread title to include a "war" reference. I assure you, there are no "rocks" here, Marty, save those that might be between your ears. <-- That was humor, son. If you didn't care for it, "all you have to do is dispose of it," right?
Now, feel free to discuss the new Cessna and/or what you ended up paying into and getting out of your RV-10 - or not... Either way, y'all have a blessed Memorial Day and fly safe.
-Stormy
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com (marty_away(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Stormy,
I'm sure you meant the term AOPA 'RAG' as one of endearment. As one who pens my EAA chapter's rag, there is a lot of work that goes into it. If you're not one to appreciate some or any of the articles, all you have to do is dispose of it.
Yes, RV's are great planes, but one doesn't not build an RV in a day, nor does one have all the the Part 23 requirements, employee salaries, or company support (& liability) as OEMs do.
If I'd have bought, rather than start to build, I would have been flying 5 years ago...... And it's a bit harder to find an A/P to sign off a used RV, vice a used Cessna.
Please put the rocks down.
Marty Heller
RV-7, wiring....
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:59:15 -0400
Subject: Cessna & Vans
From: sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Just got my latest AOPA rag, and was checking the specs on the new Cessna Corvalis TT versus the similar-looking and familiar RV-10...
The different missions of these two four-seaters are obvious, beginning with the prime objective of removing $644,000 plus tax from the back pocket of the Cessna buyer
The 10 will get in and out of my 2000 foot grass strip with ease, nearly as well as my RV-6A; the TT better not even try.
Cruising at FL250 in pressurized comfort, the Corvalis ticks off the miles at 227 knots, while the RV-10 probably tops out at FL200 and a more modest 172 knots.
But, the 10 will carry 4 good-size people and 100 pounds of baggage with its fuel tanks full. For the same topped-tanks mission, the Cessna will carry two 180-pound men, one 104 # trophy wife, and she has to leave all her baggage behind - not even a purse. The guys have to leave their baggage behind, too, and no handheld transceivers, headsets, or charts can be accommodated without draining some fuel. A 464 pound useful load makes the TT a basically two person airplane if the tanks are full.
I'm not a -10 owner or builder (but I've sat in one at SnF) - yet I continue to be amazed at what Van has created for those willing to bang the rivets and sand & fill the fiberglass for a few years. "Total Performance" involves a whole lot more than just the sweet cruise speed and fairly good climb rates of Cessna's latest offering.
Wonder what -10 builders are coming up with for all-up costs to build their ships? Seems it would be darn hard to tie up 644k in a Vans...
-Stormy
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more. | Quote: |
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin |
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Mag / Rag it’s all a term of endearment.
I have to say if price were no object I would have consider the Corvalis,
Lancair, Columbia whatever you call it… depending on the time one made the
purchase. The latest Corvalis release is an amazing sculpture in flying
form. Spend just a few minutes walking around the aircraft and one sees the
incredible attention to detail, magnificent lines and well thought out
components. It is truly a stunning flying machine. That being said it is not
too often that price is no object and the -10 is much more practical and
usable plane for most pilots willing to fly in the experimental category.
Throw in the unknown of composite aircraft 20+ years down the road and a
metal plane makes even more sense. It must be said there are many pilots
that will not own an experimental. I personally hope I never own another
certified aircraft but that is just me. Add in the cost of maintenance on a
certified plane plus insurance mostly based on hull value and the RV-10
literally fills it’s tanks for free. And to answer your question one CAN
spend $644K building and RV, it just happens to look like 2 RV-10’s, 1 RV-8,
1 RV-7A and a 2011 Corvette to use as a tug.
Robin
Do Not Archive
*From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Kraus
*Sent:* Friday, May 28, 2010 10:22 AM
*To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin
I think he meant 'mag'....
Sent from my iPhone
On May 28, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Stormy,
I'm sure you meant the term AOPA 'RAG' as one of endearment. As one who
pens my EAA chapter's rag, there is a lot of work that goes into it. If
you're not one to appreciate some or any of the articles, all you have to do
is dispose of it.
Yes, RV's are great planes, but one doesn't not build an RV in a day, nor
does one have all the the Part 23 requirements, employee salaries, or
company support (& liability) as OEMs do.
If I'd have bought, rather than start to build, I would have been flying
5 years ago...... And it's a bit harder to find an A/P to sign off a used
RV, vice a used Cessna.
Please put the rocks down.
Marty Heller
RV-7, wiring....
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:59:15 -0400
Subject: Cessna & Vans
From: sportav8r(at)gmail.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Just got my latest AOPA rag, and was checking the specs on the new Cessna
Corvalis TT versus the similar-looking and familiar RV-10...
The different missions of these two four-seaters are obvious, beginning with
the prime objective of removing $644,000 plus tax from the back pocket of
the Cessna buyer
The 10 will get in and out of my 2000 foot grass strip with ease, nearly as
well as my RV-6A; the TT better not even try.
Cruising at FL250 in pressurized comfort, the Corvalis ticks off the miles
at 227 knots, while the RV-10 probably tops out at FL200 and a more modest
172 knots.
But, the 10 will carry 4 good-size people and 100 pounds of baggage with its
fuel tanks full. For the same topped-tanks mission, the Cessna will carry
two 180-pound men, one 104 # trophy wife, and she has to leave all her
baggage behind - not even a purse. The guys have to leave their baggage
behind, too, and no handheld transceivers, headsets, or charts can be
accommodated without draining some fuel. A 464 pound useful load makes the
TT a basically two person airplane if the tanks are full.
I'm not a -10 owner or builder (but I've sat in one at SnF) - yet I continue
to be amazed at what Van has created for those willing to bang the rivets
and sand & fill the fiberglass for a few years. "Total Performance"
involves a whole lot more than just the sweet cruise speed and fairly good
climb rates of Cessna's latest offering.
Wonder what -10 builders are coming up with for all-up costs to build their
ships? Seems it would be darn hard to tie up 644k in a Vans...
-Stormy
* *
* *
*p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List*
*ronics.com*
*ww.matronics.com/contribution*
* *
------------------------------
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| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin |
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On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
| Quote: | > The latest Corvalis release is an amazing sculpture in flying form. Spend just a few minutes walking around the aircraft and one sees the incredible attention to detail, magnificent lines and well thought out components. It is truly a stunning flying machine. <<
|
|
I particularly liked the venturis in the wheel pants to keep the brakes cool. Nice touch, and a mod I might consider on the 6A.
[quote]
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Michael Kraus
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:22 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Cessna & Vans - let the war begin
I think he meant 'mag'....
Sent from my iPhone
On May 28, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Marty Helller <marty_away(at)hotmail.com (marty_away(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Stormy,
I'm sure you meant the term AOPA 'RAG' as one of endearment. As one who pens my EAA chapter's rag, there is a lot of work that goes into it. If you're not one to appreciate some or any of the articles, all you have to do is dispose of it.
Yes, RV's are great planes, but one doesn't not build an RV in a day, nor does one have all the the Part 23 requirements, employee salaries, or company support (& liability) as OEMs do.
If I'd have bought, rather than start to build, I would have been flying 5 years ago...... And it's a bit harder to find an A/P to sign off a used RV, vice a used Cessna.
Please put the rocks down.
Marty Heller
RV-7, wiring....
Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:59:15 -0400
Subject: Cessna & Vans
From: sportav8r(at)gmail.com (sportav8r(at)gmail.com)
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Just got my latest AOPA rag, and was checking the specs on the new Cessna Corvalis TT versus the similar-looking and familiar RV-10...
The different missions of these two four-seaters are obvious, beginning with the prime objective of removing $644,000 plus tax from the back pocket of the Cessna buyer
The 10 will get in and out of my 2000 foot grass strip with ease, nearly as well as my RV-6A; the TT better not even try.
Cruising at FL250 in pressurized comfort, the Corvalis ticks off the miles at 227 knots, while the RV-10 probably tops out at FL200 and a more modest 172 knots.
But, the 10 will carry 4 good-size people and 100 pounds of baggage with its fuel tanks full. For the same topped-tanks mission, the Cessna will carry two 180-pound men, one 104 # trophy wife, and she has to leave all her baggage behind - not even a purse. The guys have to leave their baggage behind, too, and no handheld transceivers, headsets, or charts can be accommodated without draining some fuel. A 464 pound useful load makes the TT a basically two person airplane if the tanks are full.
I'm not a -10 owner or builder (but I've sat in one at SnF) - yet I continue to be amazed at what Van has created for those willing to bang the rivets and sand & fill the fiberglass for a few years. "Total Performance" involves a whole lot more than just the sweet cruise speed and fairly good climb rates of Cessna's latest offering.
Wonder what -10 builders are coming up with for all-up costs to build their ships? Seems it would be darn hard to tie up 644k in a Vans...
-Stormy
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