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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 72
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Hi all
I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's?
Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing????
Regards, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
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ricksked(at)cox.net Guest
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Rick,
Don't use rivets at all to attach those brackets, use machine screws and stopnuts. You will need to rotate the brackets when rigging the trim, just bolt them up when you have them adjusted.
I'm not sure what the problem with the step drill except you ARE drilling an hole first before using the drill right? They don't start holes very well.
Rick Sked
N246RS
Annual time!!
---- Rick and Sandra Lark <jrlark(at)bmts.com> wrote:
Quote: | Hi all
I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's?
Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing????
Regards, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon Guest
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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I would guess you might be using the “Harbor Freight” type step drill. They tend to make rough, less than round holes. I bought a set figuring I could save a few dollars. Big mistake.
Try a Unibit brand step drill. Smooth hole every time. If your local Lowes/Home Depot should have them. If not, Cleaveland Tools does: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/products.asp?dept=21
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (540 hrs)
RV-10 (systems install)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick and Sandra Lark
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:06 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: step drills etc
Hi all
I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates. The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets. I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here. Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's?
Question 2: Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill? I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use. I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either. Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole. What am I missing????
Regards,� Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 364
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: step drills etc |
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Drill into a piece of scrap first to make sure sizing is accurate or your snap bushings will be loose. My first one was not.
I used LP-4's but will change out to screws/miniature nut plates later on.
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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 72
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Hmmm....Yes you're right Carl. Both drills were cheap Harbor Freight type drills. I don't usually go the cheap route when it comes to tools. Not sure now why I even tried. I'll look for a "good" drill. Thx
Rick
[quote] ---
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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 72
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Ok, thx Rick. I kind of wondered about those brackets. I probably will
just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start rigging, which
appears to be a ways down the road.
I have to ask another question. At this point (elevators just about
complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project. I noticed on Tim O's web
site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point..... I must be really slow
or????? How much time did other builders have at this stage?
I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want it
done correctly. Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??
All opinions appreciated.
Rick Lark
#40956
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2879
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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I've found that while I think most people *can* move as quick through
the project as I did, if they want to, that I may be a little bit
quicker than many. The thing is, I think I really did devote myself
to the project when I was on it, and when I wasn't, I really wasn't.
The more consistent you work on it, and the more you plan ahead, the
faster it goes. I didn't cut corners or do sloppy work, and in fact
worried at first that I was being WAY too anal for the first 50 or
100 hours. But, I just really went to it, and got in the groove.
I think if someone has no big family obligations on a daily basis,
and doesn't have too many other irons in the fire, that you'd likely
easily complete any RV-10 in 3 years. But, most people have obligations
and other things going on. I was lucky enough to even have a wife that
mowed the lawn every time it needed it, so that I didn't have to.
With a partner like that, it was easy to finish in 25 months...I could
even go much quicker next time if I wanted. I even had to take care
of kids as a single-parent-at-home most evenings, when they were 2,3,4,5
years old, so I did it with plenty of things going on. It's just
a matter of focus and consistent work. Plus...I *really* wanted it
done.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Rick and Sandra Lark wrote:
[quote]
Ok, thx Rick. I kind of wondered about those brackets. I probably will
just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start rigging,
which appears to be a ways down the road.
I have to ask another question. At this point (elevators just about
complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project. I noticed on Tim O's
web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point..... I must be really
slow or????? How much time did other builders have at this stage?
I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want
it done correctly. Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??
All opinions appreciated.
Rick Lark
#40956
---
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 1188 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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I stopped trying to track time, oh, around doing the vertical stab.
Work goes a lot faster when you don't waste time tracking it. I know
of at least one kit that is below ser. no 40050 that is no where near
putting the major parts together, much less finishing. Enjoy the
build, satisfy your own quality requirements, and it will be done when
it is done.
Kelly
40866
Fuselage/fuel system
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Rick and Sandra Lark <jrlark(at)bmts.com> wrote:
.
Quote: |
I have to ask another question. �At this point (elevators just about
complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project. �I noticed on Tim O's web
site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point..... �I must be really slow
or????? � �How much time did other builders have at this stage?
I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want it
done correctly. �Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??
All opinions appreciated.
Rick Lark
#40956
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com Guest
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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My experience with the HF strep bits is that they work fine for x holes
(x being dependent on the material drilled). Then suddenly, they seem to
wear through a very thin, hardened surface on the bit, and become
completely non-functioning junk.
Having said that, the HF bits are a good value (!!!). I forget the
prices but you can get a set of 3 bits for about the 1/3 the cost of 1
quality bit. I'm on my second set having worn 2 bits out but my '10 is
close to finished (did I say that?). I have a quality bit which I'm
saving for any more firewall SS holes but there's little other steel on
the aircraft. I used the HF bits on aluminum and composite and I'm
prepared to ruin 1 or 2 more bits if necessary.
To use the HF bits, you just have to be ready to chuck them as soon as
they don't seem to be cutting. But on sale, they are really cheap and I
have room to store them. YMMV.
Bill
Rick and Sandra Lark wrote:
[quote] Hmmm....Yes you're right Carl. Both drills were cheap Harbor Freight
type drills. I don't usually go the cheap route when it comes to
tools. Not sure now why I even tried. I'll look for a "good" drill. Thx
Rick
---
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ricksked(at)cox.net Guest
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Enjoy the process. My Dad got sick and passed away during my
build...during that time all I knew was I couldn't park my car in the
garage because of my "project" which was nothing in comparison to my
life at the time My total build time is about 2400 hours, or 5 years 4
months and 23 days. Build time is like a fingerprint...no two are the
same. Perserverance is the best ribbon they can give you at Osh....
Rick
Sent from my iPhone
On May 24, 2010, at 7:56 PM, "Rick and Sandra Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
wrote:
[quote]
>
Ok, thx Rick. I kind of wondered about those brackets. I probably
will just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start
rigging, which appears to be a ways down the road.
I have to ask another question. At this point (elevators just about
complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project. I noticed on Tim
O's web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point..... I must
be really slow or????? How much time did other builders have at
this stage?
I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still
want it done correctly. Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??
All opinions appreciated.
Rick Lark
#40956
---
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com Guest
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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I watched this carefully...
http://www.airspacemag.com/multimedia/videos/Go-For-Launch.html
... and I noticed a lot of people standing around with their hands in
their pockets. I can relate. Although my project is a one man effort
(with critical assistance from my rivet bucker and life partner Alicia),
I spend plenty of time standing around admiring the kit, my progress, my
lack of progress, thinking about future progress, smoking a cigar,
watching the Waco depart, and otherwise scritching my cat. These are
the best of times.
Now, I have to admit that I have a Maule to fly when the mood strikes,
but I increasingly find myself forcing the issue just to maintain some
proficiency (or to get from A to B). Fact is, standing around with my
hands in my pockets trying to remember what I planned to do is a lot
more fun.. sort of.
Enjoy the process and remember it's not work.
Bill "trying to get comfortable with my progress as a 4th anniversary
approaches" Watson
Rick and Sandra Lark wrote:
Quote: | ....snippetysnip
I have to ask another question. At this point (elevators just about
complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project. I noticed on Tim O's
web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point..... I must be
really slow or????? How much time did other builders have at this
stage?
I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want
it done correctly. Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??
All opinions appreciated.
Rick Lark
#40956
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jcumins(at)jcis.net Guest
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: step drills etc |
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Rick
Everyone builds at different speeds. I suspect I am about the same time hours wise as you. So don’t worry about it take your time pay close attention to the details and you will be fine.
John G. Cumins
40864 Mounted elevators to horz stab Emp almost complete
--
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sean(at)stephensville.com Guest
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: step drills etc |
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Here here. Approaching 5 years and I am just finishing the wings. Good
part is that avionics and after market "stuff" just keeps getting better
the longer it takes me. Bad part is that kit, engine and prop prices
keep going up the longer it takes me.
-Sean #40303
http://rv10.stephensville.com
On 5/24/10 10:58 PM, Rick wrote:
[quote]
Enjoy the process. My Dad got sick and passed away during my
build...during that time all I knew was I couldn't park my car in the
garage because of my "project" which was nothing in comparison to my
life at the time My total build time is about 2400 hours, or 5 years 4
months and 23 days. Build time is like a fingerprint...no two are the
same. Perserverance is the best ribbon they can give you at Osh....
Rick
Sent from my iPhone
On May 24, 2010, at 7:56 PM, "Rick and Sandra Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
wrote:
>
> <jrlark(at)bmts.com>
>
> Ok, thx Rick. I kind of wondered about those brackets. I probably
> will just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start
> rigging, which appears to be a ways down the road.
>
> I have to ask another question. At this point (elevators just about
> complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project. I noticed on Tim
> O's web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point..... I must be
> really slow or????? How much time did other builders have at this
> stage?
>
> I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still
> want it done correctly. Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??
>
> All opinions appreciated.
>
> Rick Lark
> #40956
>
> ---
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Posts: 364
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: step drills etc |
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It depends alot on how you track time. I just write start and end time right on the plans as I check off the steps. At the end of the section go back and add the highlighted times up. My time starts when I am actually working with tools/parts in my hand. I don't count ordering, a picture every now and then, lunch/supper breaks, or reading plans before work starts.
It also depends on how much you spent on tools up front, shop conditions, your mechanical ability and comfort using tools that can hurt if not used correctly. Like most said...just enjoy the build, hang some pics of finished rv's/trip pics like I did for motivation, fly/hang out with at least one other builder/rv owner for motivation which I do, and save as much $$$ as possible for the next piece but lastly don't forget the family. My wonderful wife of 21 yrs is a really good riveter now...only had to drill out 2 or 3 so far. My 10 & 7 yr olds are good at clecoing and placing rivets for Dad.
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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 72
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Guys
Thx for the advise and words of encouragement concerning build times.
I really am enjoying building this aircraft. Maybe that's why I'm so slow,
I'm savoring it too much
Tim you are one lucky man to have a spouse that mowed the lawn while you
built. Having said that I don't think I'd trust my wife with the mower
anyway.
I will keep working away at it, and as someone said, "it'll be done when
it's done".
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2879
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Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: step drills etc |
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Yes, I'm lucky, but trust me, every time I tell someone how
it was fun for "me to build an RV-10", she constantly reminds me
that the only reason I was able to do it was because she picked
up a lot of the loose ends around the house. I appreciate the
heck out of her though. I'm very lucky we had the same goals.
Like the others said, enjoy it and make the build the way YOU want
it. Some want a relaxing building hobby...that's awesome. Some
see building as the journey to the reward at the end of the rainbow,
and they want to get there quick. Each person can approach it
with the level of "push" that they want. The part that gets tough
is when you want it done soon, but you don't want to dig in. I
spent countless nights laying awake just honestly praying for
spirit of dedication to the task, to enable me to make it though
the project at a rate that would satisfy the burning want to get
it done before I got too impatient to appreciate the time spent.
It's a very tough mental exercise to take on such a project if
you're impatient for the end result, as I was, because you
constantly have to see the light at the end of the tunnel lest
you let it break your spirit if you become discouraged. It's
one of the reasons I usually recommend saving enough money ahead
of time to finish the kit before your money pile runs out....because
if someone is really driven for that end result, it IS possible
to build the entire plane in such a short timeline that you
can easily get to the major spending sections before you have
the money saved. You start on the tail, and the next thing you
know you're buying your panel. For some people, patience comes
easy....for others (me), it was a learned thing on this project.
Thankfully there are numerous "I finished" experiences throughout
the process, as each section is completed.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Rick Lark wrote:
Quote: |
Guys
Thx for the advise and words of encouragement concerning build times.
I really am enjoying building this aircraft. Maybe that's why I'm so
slow, I'm savoring it too much
Tim you are one lucky man to have a spouse that mowed the lawn while you
built. Having said that I don't think I'd trust my wife with the mower
anyway.
I will keep working away at it, and as someone said, "it'll be done when
it's done".
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
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fixitauto(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: step drills etc |
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Ordered my kit 40079 on Thursday at osk the year vans started selling them
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