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rsteele(at)rjsit.com
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 Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: slider canopy |
 |
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An RV has pretty much straight sides where the 601/50 has a pretty good flare front to back. How are you planning to have the narrow front part slide over the wider back part? I've been thinking about this, and it seem like the canopy would have to lift up, a lot, more than on an RV, before sliding. For what it's worth, the 601 also has more head and leg room the than an RV7 (only one I've attempted to get into - and failed).
I really hope you do this, I'd love to see your solution.
Ron
On May 23, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote]Your right Bill, See what a simple test can turn into? Thats why most don't post because other can't wait to flame you but I have been on these lists since building RV's and they are all the same. I said I was done with the pissing match but they can't let it rest.
So now I am done with the pissing match again. LOL
BTW are you going with push pull tubes? The ones I installed work great but it isn't a quick conversion as you know but when I talked to Sebastian about them he seemed to like the way I went about doing it.
We are Flying 962T again tomorrow and that will end the 5 hour Phase 1 and I think Thomas is coming to pick it up this week.
I am going to install a Van's slider canopy in my next 601 that I am building now along with a Corvair and push pull tubes. Believe it or not the 601 is 20 mm wider than the RV-7 and I think the only thing that I need to modify is the turtle deck as the RV has bulkheads that are flat at the top and rounds as it nears the tail.
Have a good one
Jeff
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: slider canopy |
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|
We have a RV-7 in the other hanger and I have done all the measurements and it works out but the bulkheads have to be flattened at the turtle deck and gradually round as it goes back.
Jeff
In a message dated 5/23/2010 10:02:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rsteele(at)rjsit.com writes:
| Quote: |
An RV has pretty much straight sides where the 601/50 has a pretty good flare front to back. How are you planning to have the narrow front part slide over the wider back part? I've been thinking about this, and it seem like the canopy would have to lift up, a lot, more than on an RV, before sliding. For what it's worth, the 601 also has more head and leg room the than an RV7 (only one I've attempted to get into - and failed).
I really hope you do this, I'd love to see your solution.
Ron
On May 23, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Your right Bill, See what a simple test can turn into? Thats why most don't post because other can't wait to flame you but I have been on these lists since building RV's and they are all the same. I said I was done with the pissing match but they can't let it rest.
So now I am done with the pissing match again. LOL
BTW are you going with push pull tubes? The ones I installed work great but it isn't a quick conversion as you know but when I talked to Sebastian about them he seemed to like the way I went about doing it.
We are Flying 962T again tomorrow and that will end the 5 hour Phase 1 and I think Thomas is coming to pick it up this week.
I am going to install a Van's slider canopy in my next 601 that I am building now along with a Corvair and push pull tubes. Believe it or not the 601 is 20 mm wider than the RV-7 and I think the only thing that I need to modify is the turtle deck as the RV has bulkheads that are flat at the top and rounds as it nears the tail.
Have a good one
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Pagan <bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com (bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: Re: upgrade question
I have a problem with you guys bringing your private argument to this forum. Give it a rest for the benefit of all of us.
Bill Pagan
From: "afterfxllc(at)aol.com (afterfxllc(at)aol.com)" <afterfxllc(at)aol.com (afterfxllc(at)aol.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 6:27:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re: upgrade question
Brady
I guess I could talk about your new Corvair crank that came apart but you are the expert. When you get your first airplane flying come talk to me but until then you sir are the amateur. And it's funny that only you and Ron have had any problems with my post and could that have anything to do with the Corvair?
Well enough time wasted on a wanna be airplane builder I am gonna go flying in my 601 with a corvair now.
O BTW have fun cooling that 701 with a Corvair engine but what do I know right mine run cooler than any with all the unsafe parts I designed and BTW you copied.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: upgrade question
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | For what it is worth I have done 4 upgrades and built 3 flying 601's (None in
the dirt BTW) and I have taken apart 7 601's and have seen everything from 10 lb
|
lead shot bags in the wingtip, wing AOA 50�mm apart, loose spar bolts,
bottomed out spar bolts, smaller bolts for rear attach point. And non of these
failed. And as a matter of fact none of the wing attach bolts broke or were the
cause of wing failures. The spar snapped at the first bolt hole but the bolts
remained. Now as a matter of engineering of course the holes should be reamed if
at all possible but remember there are thousands of aircraft flying that have
drilled spar bolts and are safe. Zenith once told us alittle loose is ok but
not sloppy but after what has happened every thing has to be technically
correct. I use a reamer but wouldn't think one minute about drilling my own
spars with a drill bit because I know I can do it correctly and I now believe
the spar and center section wasn't the problem to begin with and after seeing
the sloppy building of some of these aircraft that didn't break apart I believe
and and have always believed flutter is the most likely reason for the failures.
Jeff,
I want to point out that just because a substandard assembly has not failed yet,
doesn't mean that it won't fail in the future, or that it can some how be
thought of as safe.
Encouraging, justifying and or down playing the dangers of sloppy building
practices is irresponsible at best.
The last thing the 601 community needs is for "Up Graded" 601's falling out of
the sky.
That would cause serious trouble for everyone.
Your willingness to openly admit that you would cut such corners on your own
plane only makes people wonder what corners you cut or are willing to cut on
their airplanes.
Why would you hold a higher standard for the safety of others than you do your
own?
The fact that you think you can drill a hole with a 2 fluted drill bit that is
some how good enough with out reaming, when the directions specifically call for
a Reamed hole, only proves that you don't understand the reasons behind the
process.
| Quote: |
And as a matter of fact none of the wing attach bolts broke or were the cause
of wing failures. The spar snapped at the first bolt hole but the bolts
|
remained.
This statement says it all:
Apparently you don't understand why the bolts are being over sized?
No one is concerned that the bolts are breaking.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason that spar broke at that hole was
because perhaps the fit between the bolt and the hole was too loose and it was
able to work the hole open further until it finally broke?
Or maybe it was one of those sloppy building techniques you mentioned earlier
that hadn't failed yet but finally did?
The difference between a professional and an armature is that a professional
knows enough to know what he doesn't know, and is able to park his ego long
enough to ask the questions he needs to do the job right.
Your personal attacks are only a sign that you have exhausted your technical
experience and knowledge.
The fact that you have built 3 flying 601s and upgraded 4 does not make me rest
easy, it causes me great concern.
I don't see this as a pissing contest, I see it as an opportunity to teach and
learn.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298613#298613
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List===========
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
====================================
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
|
[quote][b]
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rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: slider canopy |
|
|
Were you thinking of the 601 or 650 canopy? I'd hate to loose the role bar on the 650.
Ron
On May 23, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] We have a RV-7 in the other hanger and I have done all the measurements and it works out but the bulkheads have to be flattened at the turtle deck and gradually round as it goes back.
Jeff
In a message dated 5/23/2010 10:02:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rsteele(at)rjsit.com (rsteele(at)rjsit.com) writes:
| Quote: |
An RV has pretty much straight sides where the 601/50 has a pretty good flare front to back. How are you planning to have the narrow front part slide over the wider back part? I've been thinking about this, and it seem like the canopy would have to lift up, a lot, more than on an RV, before sliding. For what it's worth, the 601 also has more head and leg room the than an RV7 (only one I've attempted to get into - and failed).
I really hope you do this, I'd love to see your solution.
Ron
On May 23, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Your right Bill, See what a simple test can turn into? Thats why most don't post because other can't wait to flame you but I have been on these lists since building RV's and they are all the same. I said I was done with the pissing match but they can't let it rest.
So now I am done with the pissing match again. LOL
BTW are you going with push pull tubes? The ones I installed work great but it isn't a quick conversion as you know but when I talked to Sebastian about them he seemed to like the way I went about doing it.
We are Flying 962T again tomorrow and that will end the 5 hour Phase 1 and I think Thomas is coming to pick it up this week.
I am going to install a Van's slider canopy in my next 601 that I am building now along with a Corvair and push pull tubes. Believe it or not the 601 is 20 mm wider than the RV-7 and I think the only thing that I need to modify is the turtle deck as the RV has bulkheads that are flat at the top and rounds as it nears the tail.
Have a good one
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Pagan <bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com (bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: Re: upgrade question
I have a problem with you guys bringing your private argument to this forum. Give it a rest for the benefit of all of us.
Bill Pagan
From: "afterfxllc(at)aol.com (afterfxllc(at)aol.com)" <afterfxllc(at)aol.com (afterfxllc(at)aol.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 6:27:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re: upgrade question
Brady
I guess I could talk about your new Corvair crank that came apart but you are the expert. When you get your first airplane flying come talk to me but until then you sir are the amateur. And it's funny that only you and Ron have had any problems with my post and could that have anything to do with the Corvair?
Well enough time wasted on a wanna be airplane builder I am gonna go flying in my 601 with a corvair now.
O BTW have fun cooling that 701 with a Corvair engine but what do I know right mine run cooler than any with all the unsafe parts I designed and BTW you copied.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: upgrade question
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | For what it is worth I have done 4 upgrades and built 3 flying 601's (None in
the dirt BTW) and I have taken apart 7 601's and have seen everything from 10 lb
|
lead shot bags in the wingtip, wing AOA 50�mm apart, loose spar bolts,
bottomed out spar bolts, smaller bolts for rear attach point. And non of these
failed. And as a matter of fact none of the wing attach bolts broke or were the
cause of wing failures. The spar snapped at the first bolt hole but the bolts
remained. Now as a matter of engineering of course the holes should be reamed if
at all possible but remember there are thousands of aircraft flying that have
drilled spar bolts and are safe. Zenith once told us alittle loose is ok but
not sloppy but after what has happened every thing has to be technically
correct. I use a reamer but wouldn't think one minute about drilling my own
spars with a drill bit because I know I can do it correctly and I now believe
the spar and center section wasn't the problem to begin with and after seeing
the sloppy building of some of these aircraft that didn't break apart I believe
and and have always believed flutter is the most likely reason for the failures.
Jeff,
I want to point out that just because a substandard assembly has not failed yet,
doesn't mean that it won't fail in the future, or that it can some how be
thought of as safe.
Encouraging, justifying and or down playing the dangers of sloppy building
practices is irresponsible at best.
The last thing the 601 community needs is for "Up Graded" 601's falling out of
the sky.
That would cause serious trouble for everyone.
Your willingness to openly admit that you would cut such corners on your own
plane only makes people wonder what corners you cut or are willing to cut on
their airplanes.
Why would you hold a higher standard for the safety of others than you do your
own?
The fact that you think you can drill a hole with a 2 fluted drill bit that is
some how good enough with out reaming, when the directions specifically call for
a Reamed hole, only proves that you don't understand the reasons behind the
process.
| Quote: |
And as a matter of fact none of the wing attach bolts broke or were the cause
of wing failures. The spar snapped at the first bolt hole but the bolts
|
remained.
This statement says it all:
Apparently you don't understand why the bolts are being over sized?
No one is concerned that the bolts are breaking.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason that spar broke at that hole was
because perhaps the fit between the bolt and the hole was too loose and it was
able to work the hole open further until it finally broke?
Or maybe it was one of those sloppy building techniques you mentioned earlier
that hadn't failed yet but finally did?
The difference between a professional and an armature is that a professional
knows enough to know what he doesn't know, and is able to park his ego long
enough to ask the questions he needs to do the job right.
Your personal attacks are only a sign that you have exhausted your technical
experience and knowledge.
The fact that you have built 3 flying 601s and upgraded 4 does not make me rest
easy, it causes me great concern.
I don't see this as a pissing contest, I see it as an opportunity to teach and
learn.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298613#298613
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List===========
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
|
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
|
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| Back to top |
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: slider canopy |
|
|
601
In a message dated 5/24/2010 7:34:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rsteele(at)rjsit.com writes:
| Quote: | Were you thinking of the 601 or 650 canopy? I'd hate to loose the role bar on the 650.
Ron
On May 23, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | We have a RV-7 in the other hanger and I have done all the measurements and it works out but the bulkheads have to be flattened at the turtle deck and gradually round as it goes back.
Jeff
In a message dated 5/23/2010 10:02:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rsteele(at)rjsit.com (rsteele(at)rjsit.com) writes:
| Quote: |
An RV has pretty much straight sides where the 601/50 has a pretty good flare front to back. How are you planning to have the narrow front part slide over the wider back part? I've been thinking about this, and it seem like the canopy would have to lift up, a lot, more than on an RV, before sliding. For what it's worth, the 601 also has more head and leg room the than an RV7 (only one I've attempted to get into - and failed).
I really hope you do this, I'd love to see your solution.
Ron
On May 23, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Afterfxllc(at)aol.com (Afterfxllc(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Your right Bill, See what a simple test can turn into? Thats why most don't post because other can't wait to flame you but I have been on these lists since building RV's and they are all the same. I said I was done with the pissing match but they can't let it rest.
So now I am done with the pissing match again. LOL
BTW are you going with push pull tubes? The ones I installed work great but it isn't a quick conversion as you know but when I talked to Sebastian about them he seemed to like the way I went about doing it.
We are Flying 962T again tomorrow and that will end the 5 hour Phase 1 and I think Thomas is coming to pick it up this week.
I am going to install a Van's slider canopy in my next 601 that I am building now along with a Corvair and push pull tubes. Believe it or not the 601 is 20 mm wider than the RV-7 and I think the only thing that I need to modify is the turtle deck as the RV has bulkheads that are flat at the top and rounds as it nears the tail.
Have a good one
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Pagan <bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com (bill.pagan(at)yahoo.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: Re: upgrade question
I have a problem with you guys bringing your private argument to this forum. Give it a rest for the benefit of all of us.
Bill Pagan
From: "afterfxllc(at)aol.com (afterfxllc(at)aol.com)" <afterfxllc(at)aol.com (afterfxllc(at)aol.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 6:27:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: upgrade question
Brady
I guess I could talk about your new Corvair crank that came apart but you are the expert. When you get your first airplane flying come talk to me but until then you sir are the amateur. And it's funny that only you and Ron have had any problems with my post and could that have anything to do with the Corvair?
Well enough time wasted on a wanna be airplane builder I am gonna go flying in my 601 with a corvair now.
O BTW have fun cooling that 701 with a Corvair engine but what do I know right mine run cooler than any with all the unsafe parts I designed and BTW you copied.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Brady <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: upgrade question
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com (brady(at)magnificentmachine.com)>
afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | For what it is worth I have done 4 upgrades and built 3 flying 601's (None in
the dirt BTW) and I have taken apart 7 601's and have seen everything from 10 lb
|
lead shot bags in the wingtip, wing AOA 50�mm apart, loose spar bolts,
bottomed out spar bolts, smaller bolts for rear attach point. And non of these
failed. And as a matter of fact none of the wing attach bolts broke or were the
cause of wing failures. The spar snapped at the first bolt hole but the bolts
remained. Now as a matter of engineering of course the holes should be reamed if
at all possible but remember there are thousands of aircraft flying that have
drilled spar bolts and are safe. Zenith once told us alittle loose is ok but
not sloppy but after what has happened every thing has to be technically
correct. I use a reamer but wouldn't think one minute about drilling my own
spars with a drill bit because I know I can do it correctly and I now believe
the spar and center section wasn't the problem to begin with and after seeing
the sloppy building of some of these aircraft that didn't break apart I believe
and and have always believed flutter is the most likely reason for the failures.
Jeff,
I want to point out that just because a substandard assembly has not failed yet,
doesn't mean that it won't fail in the future, or that it can some how be
thought of as safe.
Encouraging, justifying and or down playing the dangers of sloppy building
practices is irresponsible at best.
The last thing the 601 community needs is for "Up Graded" 601's falling out of
the sky.
That would cause serious trouble for everyone.
Your willingness to openly admit that you would cut such corners on your own
plane only makes people wonder what corners you cut or are willing to cut on
their airplanes.
Why would you hold a higher standard for the safety of others than you do your
own?
The fact that you think you can drill a hole with a 2 fluted drill bit that is
some how good enough with out reaming, when the directions specifically call for
a Reamed hole, only proves that you don't understand the reasons behind the
process.
| Quote: |
And as a matter of fact none of the wing attach bolts broke or were the cause
of wing failures. The spar snapped at the first bolt hole but the bolts
|
remained.
This statement says it all:
Apparently you don't understand why the bolts are being over sized?
No one is concerned that the bolts are breaking.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason that spar broke at that hole was
because perhaps the fit between the bolt and the hole was too loose and it was
able to work the hole open further until it finally broke?
Or maybe it was one of those sloppy building techniques you mentioned earlier
that hadn't failed yet but finally did?
The difference between a professional and an armature is that a professional
knows enough to know what he doesn't know, and is able to park his ego long
enough to ask the questions he needs to do the job right.
Your personal attacks are only a sign that you have exhausted your technical
experience and knowledge.
The fact that you have built 3 flying 601s and upgraded 4 does not make me rest
easy, it causes me great concern.
I don't see this as a pissing contest, I see it as an opportunity to teach and
learn.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298613#298613
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List===========
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
|
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
====================================
t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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