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danweseman(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: rocket tails |
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Hi Vern , I looked over your page a few months ago when this topic came up ! I plan to do the mods basicly as you did , plus a few others ive seen .When you say thick skinned tail which skins are thicker ? my control surfaces are .020 and my VS and HS skins are .032 ? How do you get on the F-1 list ? Thanks
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
From: Vern Little <sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com>
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:06 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder
I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experience with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail.
Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm
Vern Little
RV-9A (flying 4+ years)
HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage)
From: Daniel Weseman (danweseman(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com (rocket-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
From: Danny <vft(at)aol.com>
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
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sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: rocket tails |
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Yup, same thicknesses as you as I recall.
I got on the F-1 List by buying lot$ of $tuff from Mark Frederick (slider canopy, fairings, quadrant etc.) Money talks, I guess!
I will be buying a bunch of stuff from John Harmon soon, so I don't play favorites.
A friend has built an HR-II with a slider (photo on home page), so I know it can be done. http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/
Vern
From: Daniel Weseman (danweseman(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:10 PM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com (rocket-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: rocket tails
Hi Vern , I looked over your page a few months ago when this topic came up ! I plan to do the mods basicly as you did , plus a few others ive seen .When you say thick skinned tail which skins are thicker ? my control surfaces are .020 and my VS and HS skins are .032 ? How do you get on the F-1 list ? Thanks
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com (danweseman(at)yahoo.com)
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
From: Vern Little <sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com>
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:06 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder
I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experience with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail.
Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm
Vern Little
RV-9A (flying 4+ years)
HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage)
From: Daniel Weseman (danweseman(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com (rocket-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures
Dan Weseman
danweseman(at)yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
From: Danny <vft(at)aol.com>
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster(at)gmail.com>
To: rocket-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it?
Lee...
| Quote: | | =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=========== |
| Quote: | [b]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00
[/b] | Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/contributi==============
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00
[quote][b]
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vft(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: rocket tails |
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I have not heard of any issues with the modified RV-4 tails. Only the F1. On my airplane the tail would shake as low as 195 KIAS. Others I have spoken to have had the issue at higher speeds or not at all. I believe the jury is still out as to what is the root cause. The general consensus of the aero eng types I have spoken to say that something, maybe turbulence coming off the airframe ahead of the stab or something in the elevator is setting up a vibe that when it hits the right frequency is causing the horiz stab to shake. Stiffening the horiz stab has helped in a couple of the airplanes with this issue. At least one airplane was fixed by changing the shape of the elevator trailing edge.
I tried the elevator trailing mod but it did not improve things. I then noticed my elevator skins were a bit concave just before the tailing edge joggle. I had access to a set of factory built F1 elavators so I bought these and installed them. This seemed to fix the issue until the plane was painted last year. The tail shook on the return flight home. I tried rebalancing things and tried the trailing edge mod again. This time it improved things a bit but the issue was still there.
According to Mark, early F1 tail kits had .032" front spars and .040" rear spars. Later kits had .040" front and rear spars. Mine is an early one so I added an .040" doubler to the front and rear of the front spar. These go out to the mid rib position. I also added an .040" doubler to the front of the rear spar that extends to and picks up the mid hinge brackets. Skin stiffeners are .040" and I reassembled the whole thing with Pro Seal on the faying surfaces. The horz stab is much stiffer now and hopfully this will work. I'll know in a couple of weeks.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List |
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ernest(at)flmitigation.co
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: rocket tails |
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I had my HR2 retro fitted with the slider and it works great.
E
On 5/24/10 7:14 PM, "Vern Little" <[url=sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com]sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com[/url]> wrote:
[quote]Yup, same thicknesses as you as I recall.
I got on the F-1 List by buying lot$ of $tuff from Mark Frederick (slider canopy, fairings, quadrant etc.) Money talks, I guess!
I will be buying a bunch of stuff from John Harmon soon, so I don't play favorites.
A friend has built an HR-II with a slider (photo on home page), so I know it can be done. http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/
Vern
From: Daniel Weseman <mailto:danweseman(at)yahoo.com (danweseman(at)yahoo.com)>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:10 PM
To: [url=rocket-list(at)matronics.com]rocket-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: rocket tails
Hi Vern , I looked over your page a few months ago when this topic came up ! I plan to do the mods basicly as you did , plus a few others ive seen .When you say thick skinned tail which skins are thicker ? my control surfaces are .020 and my VS and HS skins are .032 ? How do you get on the F-1 list ? Thanks
Dan Weseman
[url=danweseman(at)yahoo.com]danweseman(at)yahoo.com[/url]
www.flycleanex.com <http://www.flycleanex.com>
www.fly5thbearing.com <http://www.fly5thbearing.com>
From: Vern Little <[url=sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com]sprocket(at)vx-aviation.com[/url]>
To: [url=rocket-list(at)matronics.com]rocket-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:06 PM
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experience with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail.
Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm
Vern Little
RV-9A (flying 4+ years)
HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage)
From: Daniel Weseman <mailto:danweseman(at)yahoo.com (danweseman(at)yahoo.com)>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM
To: [url=rocket-list(at)matronics.com]rocket-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures
Dan Weseman
[url=danweseman(at)yahoo.com]danweseman(at)yahoo.com[/url]
www.flycleanex.com <http://www.flycleanex.com/>
www.fly5thbearing.com <http://www.fly5thbearing.com/>
From: Danny <[url=vft(at)aol.com]vft(at)aol.com[/url]>
To: [url=rocket-list(at)matronics.com]rocket-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM
Subject: Re: Re: New Rocket Builder
I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
--
| | - The Matronics Rocket-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List |
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