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More Gas.....

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zsmith3rd(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: More Gas.....

List,



Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next month.....however,



Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?



Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good old American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the retail price of fuel.



Those were the good old days!!  Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s.



do not archive



Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: More Gas.....

I  pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon.

---

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: More Gas.....

A gas war would solve our problems if the retailers were the primary 

cause for high fuel prices.



Unfortunately, I don't think those poor guys are making any more 

today than they have in the past.  The big winners are the crude oil 

producers, refiners, and particularly in Europe - the government that 

taxes fuel until it squeaks.



With the Indians and Chinese sucking up enough crude that there is a 

potential shortage there and a shortage of refining capacity we can 

expect no help in the near future.



At least we are looking for 5 or 6 gallons per hour for our 

aircraft.  Think of the folks who fly older and larger planes that 

really suck down the fuel.  I remember an article describing one of 

the new baby jet planes that uses 90 gph at idle and 300 at max power.



Paul

XL wings

do not archive

At 06:39 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?


	


---------------------------------------------

Paul Mulwitz

32013 NE Dial Road

Camas, WA 98607

---------------------------------------------

TH-SR

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: WI

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: More Gas.....

Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away

fast, so here's my 2 cents worth: 



Paul, I agree with you in part. The retailers (with the exception of company

stores) are not to blame. You mentioned the producers. Here is where I begin

to take exception. It is my understanding that there is an abundance of

crude currently available to the global market, and that the real problem

influencing the market is refinery capacity. George Bush, Dick Chaney and

company recognize the situation, but in reality, does anyone really believe

they will do anything postive with it? Should they do anything?



I feel your mention of the refiners hits the nail on the head. They are

controlling the situation. In spite of all the smoke (all the bogus reasons

for the current pricing), they continue in spite of our screams to charge

what the market will bear. Why build more refineries to increase production

when they are making record profits now?



What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies

in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the

market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you

think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I

bet we'd see some real changes - real fast...



Best Regards,

Todd Henning

West Bend, WI

701stol(at)gmail.com



--

_________________
Todd
CH701

kobo1(at)cyberbeach.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: More Gas.....

Does anyone have an idea what the US gov't pays for all the fuel it uses?

Even the airlines get such a better rate because of the volumn they use.



do not archive



Michael

---

bakpakr2(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: More Gas.....

You must be a lot older than me. : ) When I pumped gas in high school it was 

35.9 cents a gallon in 1971. $3.06 today in San Diego for regular.



John

N701HW - reserved. One hotel whiskey....please



---

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: More Gas.....

Hi Todd,



I'll try to address your comments and issues, then attempt to stop 

posting on this subject.  I don't think this is really off topic, but 

it is so rife with political overtones I think it is best 

avoided.  Off list communications are always welcome. . .



There are so many issues adding up to high crude oil and distillate 

prices that there is not one simple answer to the problem.



I think the biggest long term issue is the global shortage of crude 

oil production capacity vs. the global demand.  This is not currently 

obvious because of the current inventories you mentioned.  Still, the 

demand tends to suck up all the supply over long periods of time and 

has done so for several years.



There are many short term issues making this situation worse.  One is 

the political problems in several oil producing countries including 

Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, and Venezuela.  Any time one of these places 

makes oil related news (meaning nearly every day) the people who buy 

crude oil for refining into gasoline and other marketable stuff hurry 

up and buy up their needs in the futures markets causing the prices to go up.



One new factor in the oil price equation is new interest in financial 

markets.  Particularly, there are new funds and other trading media 

that allow people to invest( gamble?) money on the idea that oil and 

gas prices will continue to go up.  There are so many investors 

piling so much money into these new funds that the price of oil is pushed up.



Another big contributor to this problem is the US balance of 

trade.  We buy so much more goods than we sell to foreigners that the 

only possible reaction is for the US dollar to become 

weaker.  Combine this with the fact that crude oil is priced 

everywhere in US dollars and you discover that the price must go 

up.  Something like 1/3 of all US imports each year is crude oil.  So 

we wind up trading ever weakening dollars for the crude.  I expect 

this to get even worse since some of our fine politicians object to 

foreigners buying US assets with the dollars they got for the 

oil.  The net result could be a reluctance for foreigners to accept 

those unusable dollars in the future - leading to even higher oil 

prices.  Add to this the fact that our government spends trillions of 

dollars more than it receives in taxes and you get even more pressure 

to weaken the dollar and increase oil prices.



I agree with you that refining capacity is an issue in the USA.  This 

was highlighted when storms took out a significant portion of our 

refining capacity last year.  On top of that, we can't just build 

more refineries.  That takes many years and must overcome the NIMBY 

problem (Not In My Back Yard) which causes any proposal for a new 

refinery to face many years of political objections from the local 

population where it is proposed.



I wish there were something Bush, Chaney, or any other government 

leaders could do about all this.  I am afraid anything they do just 

makes things worse.  Bush is currently pushing alternative fuels with 

great gusto.  Alas, while this might relieve some of the pressure on 

oil consumption it will also increase the prices we all pay for fuel 

rather than reducing the average prices.  I suppose we could drill in 

ANWAR but the Greenies go ballistic anytime that is proposed.  It 

seems they are more worried about a few wild animals than prices at 

the gas pumps.



The bottom line for those of us who want to fly around in planes is 

to keep our planes small and fuel consumption limited.  I am afraid 

we will not see significantly lower fuel prices in our lifetimes.



I have heard proposals for boycotts of the big oil companies 

before.  I don't support such activities as I feel they just won't 

work.  So long as people are willing to pay for fuel the companies 

will provide it.  If we really want to take action to reduce fuel 

prices we must actually reduce fuel consumption.  Tell that to the 

mothers whose kids want after school activities or the people who 

commute to work.



Paul

XL wings

do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		  Paul, I agree with you in part. The retailers (with the exception of company

stores) are not to blame. You mentioned the producers. Here is where I begin

to take exception. It is my understanding that there is an abundance of

crude currently available to the global market, and that the real problem

influencing the market is refinery capacity. George Bush, Dick Chaney and

company recognize the situation, but in reality, does anyone really believe

they will do anything postive with it? Should they do anything?

hrs1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: More Gas.....

List  . . . this is kind of a fun, off-beat topic.  Do not archive.  I 

maintain the real cost of gas today is cheaper than in the "good old days". 

When I was in high school in '52 and had my first Chevy, I paid about $ .30 

a gallon.   Prices have gone up 6 x since '52 which would make gas $1.80 per 

gallon today.  However, that Chevy only got 12 mpg, and it's not unusual for 

a car today to get 24 mpg.  The current price of gas would have to go up to 

$3.60  per gallon for the cost per mile driven to be the same as in '52 

dollars.



Almost everything is about 6x higher including starting salaries out of 

college.  ($5,000 / yr. for me vs. $40,000 now (engineer) so it shouldn't 

cost a young couple any more to live now than it did then except for one 

thing, and that is housing.  We have "trained" our kids to expect too much. 

We used to be satisfied with a 1,000 sf. starter ranch with 3 bedrooms, 1 

bath, and no family room costing $20,000.  Such a home can still be bought 

for $120,000 (6x) in ordinary areas.  (San Francisco and the other big 

metropolatin areas are not ordinary.) Now our kids wouldn't be caught dead 

in such a starter house.  They expect and buy at least 2 1/2 baths, a big 

family room, etc..  Hence their house payments are out of sight, and the two 

of them have to work.  And none of them remember how the highest tax bracket 

in the Eisenhauer years was 90%.  End of the trivia for today.  As I say, do 

not archive.  Robert Schoenberger 701



---

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: More Gas.....

Hi guys,

  This subject is not off topic for us builder/fliers  if you use the 

"do not archive" insert.

  There is much  you can do if you decide it's worth the effort.  Put an 

engine in that burns

  less than 4 gallons per hour, car gas.  During the next round of "low 

gas prices" fill 5 or 6

  5-gallon cans of car gas and use a motorcycle to get to and from the 

airport.  I'm

  still riding my motorcycle on $2.25/gal gas.  The much maligned 

Stratus Subaru gives me

  a 3.2 gal/hr run at anything near 100 mph and 90% of the time there's 

no hurry.  Further

 downstream, look carefully at the "plug hybrid cars" that are only a 

conversion in this country.

  The Prius is a plug hybrid in Japan, but not here.  Good idea if you 

only drive 30-40 miles

  each day.  You only have to plug in each night at a cost of $2.00.  At 

the prices we're seeing

  the oil lines are now filling up quickly.  I expect prices to stall in 

a month or two and they'll

  be coming back down to the next "bottom" of $2.25 to $2.50.  Don't 

think people just keep

  running till it's gone.  The slow down has begun and the product has 

to flow while other forms

  of fuel and energy make their presence known.  I expect E85 to go up 

in price within a few

  cents of gasoline.  Remember Diesel? The pipeline isn't large enough 

for the number of vehicles being sold

  to use it. Everyone will conserve at anything above $3.00. Those of us 

who will continue to fly

  use car-gas at low-fuel flows. We've seen Lycombings in my area down 

waiting for better prices.

  The worst is that our local FBO, rental, instruction and training 

company has folded his tent.

  I doubt he will be replaced by anyone.  Don't expect government to 

bail you out.  If they get

  involved, we'll have non-stop gas lines here for sure.

  The five companies are a pool with common representation and 

transportation for product.

  Doubt that any boycott would do any good.  You'd have to boycott the 

entire product line.

  Good luck,

  

  Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

   do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away

fast, so here's my 2 cents worth: 

What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies

in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the

market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you

think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I

bet we'd see some real changes - real fast...



Best Regards,

Todd Henning

West Bend, WI

701stol(at)gmail.com

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: More Gas.....

on 4/25/06 11:48 AM, CH701 at 701stol(at)gmail.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away

 fast, so here's my 2 cents worth:



...

 

 What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies

 in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the

 market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you

 think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I

 bet we'd see some real changes - real fast...

 

 Best Regards,

 Todd Henning

 West Bend, WI

 701stol(at)gmail.com



 
	


Exxon-Mobil would then just sell their product to other distributors and

their local retailers would suffer. It wouldn't do any harm to the parent

corporation at all since you'd end up buying their oil from other companies

anyway.

-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: More Gas.....

The gasoline supply chain is WAY to complex for that to work. Let's look and El Dorado Arkansas. Population 22,000.



We have a refinery here. Lion Oil. We have gas stations sporting pretty much all the major oil company names. 



With only one exception that I know of. Every drop of gasoline in each one of those stations comes from the same rack at the Lion Oil Refinery. Each "Brand" has some additives that are specific to them but it is the same gas.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: More Gas.....

Trying to decide if I should build a still,grow some corn ,and run my 701  on 

ethanol?

   Or go with a bio-diesel engine.

   any suggestions?

    please do not archive.   I'm not serious.

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