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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: Rust in carburetor |
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Hi Bernardo,
Thanks for your comments on the newsletter. Your feedback on articles and items in the newsletter help me know what is really helpful and thus important to Lightning builders and flyers.
As to the FAA accident case study about the Jabiru engine failure due to rust in the Bing carb, I hope everyone that reads the newsletter will take the time to follow the link to the FAA write up on this fatal accident. Although I suspect that if a Jabiru engine is only fed a diet of aviation fuel (or certainly no ethanol in any auto fuel) and if that engine is run regularly, there probably would be no problem like this article describes. But information like presented in this article is knowledge, and I am a firm believer of knowing as must as possible about the "equipment" we fly.
Good luck on your Lightning build. Keep the "Newsletter staff" informed of your progress so we can have good things to write about.
Blue Skies,
Buz
In a message dated 6/3/2010 1:18:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, n45bm(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | Hi Buz,
Nice newsletter! I was pleasantly surprised to see my emails to you along with the pictures of my little Corby Starlet, "Estrellita". Thank you.
I read with interest your June 2010 newsletter link to "Accident Case Study, A Fatal Case of a Little Corrosion in the Worst Place".
I think that not only should this be required reading for all those with Bing carburetors on their aircraft engines, but that it should be an annual inspection item, to assess if all is smooth and shiny inside the carburetor, with no binding. Hard to imagine a little rust can be fatal as it was in this case. I know that I will check mine annually, at least, or more often.
Of course, my preference would be to have fuel injection on my engine for better fuel distribution, no carburetor icing issues and better fuel economy. Is that available? I've experienced carburetor icing before and I was not a happy camper. It really grabs your attention! We don't want the cooling fan to stop in mid air because if it stops, you start sweating. Remember, air is soft, ground is hard. "Mis dos centavos" ($.02).
Regards,
Bernardo Melendez
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pete(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:39 am Post subject: Rust in carburetor |
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The only problem with the story in the FAA newsletter about corrosion in the carb is that it was not the corrosion in the carb that caused the engine stoppage. In addition to the corrosion there was a sticky substance in the carb that held the piston open in spite of gravity and the spring trying to close it. When he applied full power for take off the piston was pulled up into the dome. Then when power was reduced for cruise the piston stuck up in the dome holding the jet needle up and allowing a lot of fuel to flow through the jet while the throttle butterfly closed a bit and reduced airflow through the carb. The resulting over rich condition caused the engine to eventually stop. The sticky substance may have come from a substance used to repair a leak in the fuel tank.
While the corrosion in that carb may have lead to an early carb rebuild I don’t think it was much of a factor in this accident. If the author of the article had waited for additional results of the NTSB investigation he may have reached a different conclusion or the article may have been better titled “Foreign Substance in Fuel System”
Pete Krotje
Arion Aircraft, LLC
931-680-1781
www.flylightning.net
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 7:23 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rust in carburetor
Hi Bernardo,
Thanks for your comments on the newsletter. Your feedback on articles and items in the newsletter help me know what is really helpful and thus important to Lightning builders and flyers.
As to the FAA accident case study about the Jabiru engine failure due to rust in the Bing carb, I hope everyone that reads the newsletter will take the time to follow the link to the FAA write up on this fatal accident. Although I suspect that if a Jabiru engine is only fed a diet of aviation fuel (or certainly no ethanol in any auto fuel) and if that engine is run regularly, there probably would be no problem like this article describes. But information like presented in this article is knowledge, and I am a firm believer of knowing as must as possible about the "equipment" we fly.
Good luck on your Lightning build. Keep the "Newsletter staff" informed of your progress so we can have good things to write about.
Blue Skies,
Buz
In a message dated 6/3/2010 1:18:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, n45bm(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Buz,
Nice newsletter! I was pleasantly surprised to see my emails to you along with the pictures of my little Corby Starlet, "Estrellita". Thank you.
I read with interest your June 2010 newsletter link to "Accident Case Study, A Fatal Case of a Little Corrosion in the Worst Place".
I think that not only should this be required reading for all those with Bing carburetors on their aircraft engines, but that it should be an annual inspection item, to assess if all is smooth and shiny inside the carburetor, with no binding. Hard to imagine a little rust can be fatal as it was in this case. I know that I will check mine annually, at least, or more often.
Of course, my preference would be to have fuel injection on my engine for better fuel distribution, no carburetor icing issues and better fuel economy. Is that available? I've experienced carburetor icing before and I was not a happy camper. It really grabs your attention! We don't want the cooling fan to stop in mid air because if it stops, you start sweating. Remember, air is soft, ground is hard. "Mis dos centavos" ($.02).
Regards,
Bernardo Melendez http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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n45bm(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:51 am Post subject: Rust in carburetor |
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Hello Pete,
Thanks for your input. I had not thought it through about the "sticky" substance, but in retrospect, it makes sense.
That's what I like about this group, always on top of things. Like a chicken on a June bug.
Best regards,
Bernardo Melendez
--- On Thu, 6/3/10, Pete Krotje <pete(at)flylightning.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Pete Krotje <pete(at)flylightning.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Rust in carburetor
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 8:33 AM
The only problem with the story in the FAA newsletter about corrosion in the carb is that it was not the corrosion in the carb that caused the engine stoppage. In addition to the corrosion there was a sticky substance in the carb that held the piston open in spite of gravity and the spring trying to close it. When he applied full power for take off the piston was pulled up into the dome. Then when power was reduced for cruise the piston stuck up in the dome holding the jet needle up and allowing a lot of fuel to flow through the jet while the throttle butterfly closed a bit and reduced airflow through the carb. The resulting over rich condition caused the engine to eventually stop. The sticky substance may have come from a substance used to repair a leak in the fuel tank.
While the corrosion in that carb may have lead to an early carb rebuild I don’t think it was much of a factor in this accident. If the author of the article had waited for additional results of the NTSB investigation he may have reached a different conclusion or the article may have been better titled “Foreign Substance in Fuel System”
Pete Krotje
Arion Aircraft, LLC
931-680-1781
www.flylightning.net
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 7:23 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rust in carburetor
Hi Bernardo,
Thanks for your comments on the newsletter. Your feedback on articles and items in the newsletter help me know what is really helpful and thus important to Lightning builders and flyers.
As to the FAA accident case study about the Jabiru engine failure due to rust in the Bing carb, I hope everyone that reads the newsletter will take the time to follow the link to the FAA write up on this fatal accident. Although I suspect that if a Jabiru engine is only fed a diet of aviation fuel (or certainly no ethanol in any auto fuel) and if that engine is run regularly, there probably would be no problem like this article describes. But information like presented in this article is knowledge, and I am a firm believer of knowing as must as possible about the "equipment" we fly.
Good luck on your Lightning build. Keep the "Newsletter staff" informed of your progress so we can have good things to write about.
Blue Skies,
Buz
In a message dated 6/3/2010 1:18:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, n45bm(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: |
Hi Buz,
Nice newsletter! I was pleasantly surprised to see my emails to you along with the pictures of my little Corby Starlet, "Estrellita". Thank you.
I read with interest your June 2010 newsletter link to "Accident Case Study, A Fatal Case of a Little Corrosion in the Worst Place".
I think that not only should this be required reading for all those with Bing carburetors on their aircraft engines, but that it should be an annual inspection item, to assess if all is smooth and shiny inside the carburetor, with no binding. Hard to imagine a little rust can be fatal as it was in this case. I know that I will check mine annually, at least, or more often.
Of course, my preference would be to have fuel injection on my engine for better fuel distribution, no carburetor icing issues and better fuel economy. Is that available? I've experienced carburetor icing before and I was not a happy camper. It really grabs your attention! We don't want the cooling fan to stop in mid air because if it stops, you start sweating. Remember, air is soft, ground is hard. "Mis dos centavos" ($.02).
Regards,
Bernardo Melendez http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
0123456789
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[quote][b]
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wampam
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Rust in carburetor |
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I have noticed, on two occasions, when checking the fuel at the gasolator, the fuel had a red tint to it. The wing sumps looked fine. This occurred after the aircraft had sat for about three weeks. I continued to drain the gasolator until the fuel had the normal blue tint to it. Has anyone else observed this?
Walt M.
N881WP
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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EAFerguson(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:54 am Post subject: Rust in carburetor |
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In a message dated 6/14/2010 11:15:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford(at)garmin.com writes:
| Quote: | I have noticed, on two occasions, when checking the fuel at the gasolator the fuel had a red tint to it. The wing sumps looked fine. This occurred after the aircraft had sat for about three weeks. I continued to drain the gasolator until the fuel had the normal blue tint to it. Has anyone else observed this?
Walt M.
N881WP
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Yes, after I got some gas with mud in it. Took forwver to clear it out, and then I had trouble with the sump drain.
Earl Ferguson
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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wampam
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: Rust in carburetor |
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Thanks
This did not appear to be dirt or mud because the wing sumps continued to stay clear and the fuel tanks would be the only place where mud/dirt could enter the system. Also, there was no sediment as fair as I could tell. It kind of looked like automotive gas but I have never used it and again the wing sumps were clear. I am not sure what is causing the color to change. The next time this happens I’ll save a sample and see what kind of residue remains after letting it evaporate.
Walt M.
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAFerguson(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:54 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Rust in carburetor
In a message dated 6/14/2010 11:15:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, walt.mefford(at)garmin.com writes:
| Quote: |
I have noticed, on two occasions, when checking the fuel at the gasolator the fuel had a red tint to it. The wing sumps looked fine. This occurred after the aircraft had sat for about three weeks. I continued to drain the gasolator until the fuel had the normal blue tint to it. Has anyone else observed this?
Walt M.
N881WP |
Yes, after I got some gas with mud in it. Took forwver to clear it out, and then I had trouble with the sump drain.
Earl Ferguson
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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[quote][b]
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n5pb(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: Rust in carburetor |
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Walt,
I have not noticed this at the gascolator.
Bear
--
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