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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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Ever since the baby showed up about a month ago, my airplane building time has gone in the drink. But last weekend I fortunately found ~2 hours to work on the airplane, so hopefully we’re getting back on track.
I’m getting ready to place a bulk wire order and I’m curious what sizes seem to be the ones used most? I’m hoping to standardize on 3-4 sizes and use the next largest size; even if it’s not the smallest size capable of the load. This way I can minimize how many spools I need to buy and store in the garage.
Anyone have any recommendations on the sizes they used the most?
Phil
[quote][b]
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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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Here is something from my archives from Stein.
Sending the whole message but stick with the wires section only, worry about the BNC after you have the panel figured out.
--------------
Stick with the standard M22759/16 Tefzel wire...don't bother with teflon,
silver plated, etc...or surplus stuff (you never know what you're getting).
Also, if you spend more than a few hours "hunting" for a deal, you've just
wasted enough time to buy what you want and what you need brand new.
Depending on what you're doing with the plane and panel, buy at least the
following initially:
200' AWG22
200' AWG18
150' AWG16
50' AWG20
50' AWG14
25' AWG12
25' AWG10
100' RG-400 Coax
a dozen male BNC's, a half dozen female BNC's, a couple hundred PIDG ring
terminals, and some heatshrink.
Now, depending on if you want colors or not you can split all that up. The
above wiring amounts could vary pretty significantly depending on if you're
wiring your own panel or not, whether you're going full boat on lighting,
radios, IFR/VFR, etc.. I wouldn't waste my time buying whole spools then
trying to sell the surplus. Heck, wire is relatively cheap, we're talking
about something that costs pennies per foot...you'll only spend a couple/few
hundred bucks of wire total. Why waste your time goofing
around.......figure out what you need, what colors you want and just buy it.
As someone who regularly buys wire in 10,000' - 20,000' spools and keeps
over a half million feet of wire "hanging around", I can tell you playing
with spools to save a few percent is a waste of time on an item like this,
for one airplane. With your Avionics or engine it's a different story
because you can save a lot of dough, but in the wiring it's such a cheap
item to begin with that it's not worth much effort to save a buck.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
--------------------
Pascal
From: Perry, Phil (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:12 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Bulk Wire Order
Ever since the baby showed up about a month ago, my airplane building time has gone in the drink. But last weekend I fortunately found ~2 hours to work on the airplane, so hopefully we’re getting back on track.
I’m getting ready to place a bulk wire order and I’m curious what sizes seem to be the ones used most? I’m hoping to standardize on 3-4 sizes and use the next largest size; even if it’s not the smallest size capable of the load. This way I can minimize how many spools I need to buy and store in the garage.
Anyone have any recommendations on the sizes they used the most?
Phil
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:04 am Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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If you have not tried SteinAir, they are competitive on pricing and offer excellent customer service. http://www.steinair.com/store.htm
David Clifford
RV-10 Builder
65% Done-95% To Go
N849RV (reserved)
---
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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I personally like to use the correct size for each application to balance weight and safety. Using a wire that's too big for the application only adds weight. I understand the desire to save space, but you can get a wire spool holder that holds 8 spools of wire in a very small space. I have a friend that bought one at Lowes, I think, but I'm not sure. I actually built a wire cart, which would obviously take too much space. Another thing I like to do is use different colors as much as possible. I always use Red for power and Black for ground, of which I use mostly 18AWG, but also use a fair bit of 16AWG and 20AWG. I usually use another color for signal wires that don't actually carry power amperage, and I usually use 22AWG for this. For wires like Master and Starter, I usually use Yellow 18AWG. For Trim Servos I usually use a 3-conductor Shielded wire and a 2-conductor Shielded wire, since the servo(s) need 5 wires. Using different color wires make it much easier to trace a wire through a bundle when (not if) you have to do repairs down the road. I also like to use Stein's auto pilot servo bundle for the auto pilot servos, but I've also done that with the shielded multi-conductor wire plus red and black or with just individual wires of different colors. I also use a decent amount of 14AWG for landing lights (when HID) and for E-Bus and Backup Bus when using Vertical Power. You'll also need some 2AWG for power and starter main wires and 8AWG for Alternator and Bus wires.
Or, you could just get white 22, 20, 18, 16, 8 and 2 and make a nightmare for yourself down the road when it comes time to modify or repair. I don't recommend this. The wire bundles might look nicer this way, but they are a pain to deal with.
Oh, on the multi-conductor shielded wire, I recommend using no smaller than 22AWG. 24 is a pain to work with and 26 is rediculous, IMHO. The added weight of going to 22 is negligible for the small amount needed.
This is all assuming a 12-Volt system.
That's my $.02
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 3, 2010, at 11:12 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:
| Quote: | Ever since the baby showed up about a month ago, my airplane building time has gone in the drink. But last weekend I fortunately found ~2 hours to work on the airplane, so hopefully we’re getting back on track.
I’m getting ready to place a bulk wire order and I’m curious what sizes seem to be the ones used most? I’m hoping to standardize on 3-4 sizes and use the next largest size; even if it’s not the smallest size capable of the load. This way I can minimize how many spools I need to buy and store in the garage.
Anyone have any recommendations on the sizes they used the most?
Phil
| Quote: |
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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I went with a very similar list from Stein. But ordered extra 22 and 18, 5 different colors (Red, Green, Black, White, Yellow), 100 feet each. I have some left, but NOT some of each color. I did not wire my own panel, but…….there is a lot of wire outside the panel. For example, the wing is a little over 12 feet long, from the wing root to the back of the panel (or strobe power supply) lets say it is 6 feet depending on routing….that makes each run about 19’ so far…you will need a maintenance loop (unless you are putting in connectors), let’s say 3’. So each run out to the wing tip will be 22 feet. Now since you don’t want to come up short, better add a few feet for good measure. So lets just say, for a budget number you will need 30’ feet per run out to the wing tips. This may be a little overkill, but you will be surprised at how much wire you end up using.
RG-400. I ordered 100 feet and had to get more for the transponder cable because I ran out. Again, it is a long way out to the wing tip…..and don’t forget those maintenance loops…….
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:36 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Bulk Wire Order
Here is something from my archives from Stein.
Sending the whole message but stick with the wires section only, worry about the BNC after you have the panel figured out.
--------------
Stick with the standard M22759/16 Tefzel wire...don't bother with teflon,
silver plated, etc...or surplus stuff (you never know what you're getting).
Also, if you spend more than a few hours "hunting" for a deal, you've just
wasted enough time to buy what you want and what you need brand new.
Depending on what you're doing with the plane and panel, buy at least the
following initially:
200' AWG22
200' AWG18
150' AWG16
50' AWG20
50' AWG14
25' AWG12
25' AWG10
100' RG-400 Coax
a dozen male BNC's, a half dozen female BNC's, a couple hundred PIDG ring
terminals, and some heatshrink.
Now, depending on if you want colors or not you can split all that up. The
above wiring amounts could vary pretty significantly depending on if you're
wiring your own panel or not, whether you're going full boat on lighting,
radios, IFR/VFR, etc.. I wouldn't waste my time buying whole spools then
trying to sell the surplus. Heck, wire is relatively cheap, we're talking
about something that costs pennies per foot...you'll only spend a couple/few
hundred bucks of wire total. Why waste your time goofing
around.......figure out what you need, what colors you want and just buy it.
As someone who regularly buys wire in 10,000' - 20,000' spools and keeps
over a half million feet of wire "hanging around", I can tell you playing
with spools to save a few percent is a waste of time on an item like this,
for one airplane. With your Avionics or engine it's a different story
because you can save a lot of dough, but in the wiring it's such a cheap
item to begin with that it's not worth much effort to save a buck.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
--------------------
Pascal
From: Perry, Phil (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:12 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Bulk Wire Order
Ever since the baby showed up about a month ago, my airplane building time has gone in the drink. But last weekend I fortunately found ~2 hours to work on the airplane, so hopefully we’re getting back on track.
I’m getting ready to place a bulk wire order and I’m curious what sizes seem to be the ones used most? I’m hoping to standardize on 3-4 sizes and use the next largest size; even if it’s not the smallest size capable of the load. This way I can minimize how many spools I need to buy and store in the garage.
Anyone have any recommendations on the sizes they used the most?
Phil
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c |
0123456789 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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4
[quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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While RG-400 looks and sounds sexy, I personally don't see the advantage
of using it for nav antennas, and benefit for comm antennas is probably
marginal. I can see using it for transponder and GPS antennas. All of
the RG-58 in my Mooney is at least 20 yrs old, and radios still work
fine. That extra $1.50 a foot sure adds up in a hurry. Opinion over on
Aero-electric list recently was minimal difference for normal VHF stuff.
I guess that puts it in the primer discussion category. 
On 6/4/2010 5:50 AM, Rene Felker wrote:
| Quote: |
RG-400. I ordered 100 feet and had to get more for the transponder
cable because I ran out. Again, it is a long way out to the wing
tip…..and don’t forget those maintenance loops…….
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
*
*
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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I forgot something……
Crimp tools, pins, connectors…..etc.
I did not wire my panel, but did need plenty of these. Stein sells a great crimper and all the parts you need to make good connections.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 6:50 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Bulk Wire Order
I went with a very similar list from Stein. But ordered extra 22 and 18, 5 different colors (Red, Green, Black, White, Yellow), 100 feet each. I have some left, but NOT some of each color. I did not wire my own panel, but…….there is a lot of wire outside the panel. For example, the wing is a little over 12 feet long, from the wing root to the back of the panel (or strobe power supply) lets say it is 6 feet depending on routing….that makes each run about 19’ so far…you will need a maintenance loop (unless you are putting in connectors), let’s say 3’. So each run out to the wing tip will be 22 feet. Now since you don’t want to come up short, better add a few feet for good measure. So lets just say, for a budget number you will need 30’ feet per run out to the wing tips. This may be a little overkill, but you will be surprised at how much wire you end up using.
RG-400. I ordered 100 feet and had to get more for the transponder cable because I ran out. Again, it is a long way out to the wing tip…..and don’t forget those maintenance loops…….
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:36 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Bulk Wire Order
Here is something from my archives from Stein.
Sending the whole message but stick with the wires section only, worry about the BNC after you have the panel figured out.
--------------
Stick with the standard M22759/16 Tefzel wire...don't bother with teflon,
silver plated, etc...or surplus stuff (you never know what you're getting).
Also, if you spend more than a few hours "hunting" for a deal, you've just
wasted enough time to buy what you want and what you need brand new.
Depending on what you're doing with the plane and panel, buy at least the
following initially:
200' AWG22
200' AWG18
150' AWG16
50' AWG20
50' AWG14
25' AWG12
25' AWG10
100' RG-400 Coax
a dozen male BNC's, a half dozen female BNC's, a couple hundred PIDG ring
terminals, and some heatshrink.
Now, depending on if you want colors or not you can split all that up. The
above wiring amounts could vary pretty significantly depending on if you're
wiring your own panel or not, whether you're going full boat on lighting,
radios, IFR/VFR, etc.. I wouldn't waste my time buying whole spools then
trying to sell the surplus. Heck, wire is relatively cheap, we're talking
about something that costs pennies per foot...you'll only spend a couple/few
hundred bucks of wire total. Why waste your time goofing
around.......figure out what you need, what colors you want and just buy it.
As someone who regularly buys wire in 10,000' - 20,000' spools and keeps
over a half million feet of wire "hanging around", I can tell you playing
with spools to save a few percent is a waste of time on an item like this,
for one airplane. With your Avionics or engine it's a different story
because you can save a lot of dough, but in the wiring it's such a cheap
item to begin with that it's not worth much effort to save a buck.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
--------------------
Pascal
From: Perry, Phil (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:12 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Bulk Wire Order
Ever since the baby showed up about a month ago, my airplane building time has gone in the drink. But last weekend I fortunately found ~2 hours to work on the airplane, so hopefully we’re getting back on track.
I’m getting ready to place a bulk wire order and I’m curious what sizes seem to be the ones used most? I’m hoping to standardize on 3-4 sizes and use the next largest size; even if it’s not the smallest size capable of the load. This way I can minimize how many spools I need to buy and store in the garage.
Anyone have any recommendations on the sizes they used the most?
Phil
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[quote][b]
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rene(at)felker.com
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: Bulk Wire Order |
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With the teflon construction and all, if it's not soaked
in water or banged up on the ends, it should be a "forever"
wire. As Rene' says, it slides and pulls real easily.
I may take a very different view than some, but I don't
mind spending a little more on some of this stuff for the
RV-10 if it means it's done to the highest standard
and will outlast me. It's been very nice over the past
4+ years to find that having everything start off as
new has proved to make most things pretty trouble-free.
Man, I sure don't miss the days of KX-170B's,
fiber-wrapped wires, and all the aged stuff you get
with a 25+ year old airframe.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Rene Felker wrote:
[quote]
I prefer the "sexy" cable, lord knows my body does not fit that description
(sexy). As far as function???????, I don't know and I am not advocating the
use of 400 over anything else. My estimate is that is cost me an extra $200
to use the 400.
It does pull easy. 
Do not archive
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
--
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