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Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest
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 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
 |
|
Matt,
Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also.
I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old probes and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct.
My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else.
I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector.
I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went.
Stan Sutterfield
| Quote: | Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel
level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced
these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically
just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the
fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying
them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling
the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later.
But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy
the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have
to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float
arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal.
I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this
again!
|
[quote][b]
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Terry Watson
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
Stan,
Isn’t there a cross-feed problem with a ‘both’ fuel selector on a low wing plane like an RV? Did you find a way to deal with that?
Terry
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:15 AM
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
Matt,
Too bad you couldn't have removed them earlier. Well, I'm in the same boat. And I've been thinking about removing mine also.
I haven't done it, but I believe you will be able to remove the old probes and install the float type without removing the tanks. I'm basing this guesstimate on eyeball, but my eyeball is often correct.
My Princeton fuel probes are absolutely worthless. I recommend anyone considering buying them to consider something else - anything else.
I'm using timing and fuel flow to determine my fuel tank levels - however I have an advantage with a "Both" selection on my fuel selector.
I, for one, will be awaiting your report on how the removal/replacement went.
Stan Sutterfield
| Quote: |
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton capacitance fuel
level probes with the standard S&W float probea from Van's. Has anyone replaced
these without removing the wing or the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically
just doing it from underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the
fuselage-to-wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units without destroying
them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I can do it without pulling
the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might just tackle this sooner than later.
But if the tanks have to come off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy
the great flying weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much do you have
to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for the S&W float
arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these units so its a one-shot deal.
I've already pulled the probes out once, I definitely don't want to do this
again! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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mcingari(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
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Matt,
I would find someone with a QB 8 that has yet to install his S&W Floats and use his tanks to set up your floats.
Then just transfer them to your tanks. That would minimize the down time and could be done with the wings installed.
Good Luck,
Mike Cingari
On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV8-List Digest Server wrote:
[quote] *
==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================
Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-06-09&Archive=RV8
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-06-09&Archive=RV8
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
RV8-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3(at)aol.com)
3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com)
6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com)
7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson)
8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy (Vince Himsl)
9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... ()
10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't
remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20
minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier
time in removing the tanks and doing it that way.
Just one builders opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton
> capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea
> from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or
> the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from
> underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-
> wing fairing? Is this even possible?
>
> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units
> without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I
> can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might
> just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come
> off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying
> weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
> or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
>
> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much
> do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
>
> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for
> the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these
> units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out
> once, I definitely don't want to do this again!
>
> Thanks for the insight...
>
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
>
>
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
From: ualpilot3(at)aol.com
Matt,
I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It
is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if you
have any questions. 210-887-4546
Les Bourne
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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steve(at)stevegregory.us
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
Hi Matt,
I have the QB-8 wings/tanks without floats right here in Livermore. I would
be happy to offer any assistance.
Steve Gregory
925-323-6987 (cell)
steve(at)stevegregory.us
license # 00967131
--
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
By the time you went to all that hassle, you could have just removed
yours and insalled them. It really isn't that big of a deal!!! I'd
even venture to say you could remove your tanks and do it right faster
than working on your back with angle tools......
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]
Matt,
I would find someone with a QB 8 that has yet to install his S&W
Floats and use his tanks to set up your floats.
Then just transfer them to your tanks. That would minimize the down
time and could be done with the wings installed.
Good Luck,
Mike Cingari
On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV8-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version
> of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-06-09&Archive=RV8
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-06-09&Archive=RV8
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> RV8-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus)
> 2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3(at)aol.com
> )
> 3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334
> )
> 4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334
> )
> 5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com)
> 6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com)
> 7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson)
> 8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending
> accuracy (Vince Himsl)
> 9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... ()
> 10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge)
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
> Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US
> From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
> Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
> I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't
> remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20
> minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much
> easier
> time in removing the tanks and doing it that way.
>
> Just one builders opinion....
> -Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Listers,
>>
>> Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton
>> capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea
>> from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or
>> the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from
>> underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-
>> wing fairing? Is this even possible?
>>
>> I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units
>> without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I
>> can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might
>> just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come
>> off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying
>> weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
>> or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
>>
>> Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much
>> do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
>>
>> So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for
>> the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these
>> units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out
>> once, I definitely don't want to do this again!
>>
>> Thanks for the insight...
>>
>>
>> Matt Dralle
>> RV-8 #82880 N998RV
>> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
>> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
>> Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
>>
>>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
> Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
> From: ualpilot3(at)aol.com
> Matt,
>
> I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It
> is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if
> you
> have any questions. 210-887-4546
>
> Les Bourne
> --
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
HI ALL:I'M ONE OF THE RV BUILDERS WHO'VE BEEN HASSLING WITH FUEL GAUGE ISSUES RIGHT FROM THE GET GO. I INSTALLED THE VANS CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS IN MY TANKS AT TIME OF INITIAL CONSTRUCTION, THNKING I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. THE CAPACITIVE VALUES FROM THE TANKS FEED INTO PRINCETON SENDING UNITS - GET CONVERTED TO VOLTAGE VALUES - WHICH THEN FEED INTO THE EIS - AND FROM THERE TO THE GRT SCREEN. THIS COMBINATION DOESN'T WORK WORTH A DARN - IT'S DOWNRIGHT USELESS. THE GRT (GRAND RAPIDS TECHNOLOGY) IS A GREAT SYSTEM AND, WITH THIS ONE EXCEPTION, I'M VERY HAPPY WITH IT.
I'M CONSIDERING DROPPING THE TANKS AND INSTALLING FLOAT TYPE SENDING UNITS. I KNOW FLOATS AREN'T ALL THAT ACCURATE BUT THEY'D SURE BEAT WHAT I'VE GOT NOW - WHICH IS ABOUT LIKE HAVING NO GAUGES AT ALL.
HOWEVER - I'VE BEEN MULLING OVER ANOTHER OPTION - WHICH IS TO BUY AND INSTALL THE VANS EI FL - 2C GAUGE (at) $415 AND TWO IE P - 300C CONVERTERS (at) $45 EACH - A TOTAL OF $505 PLUS SHIPPING. I HATE TO PART WITH THE $ BUT I'VE GOT PLENTY OF SPACE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PANEL AND I SEEM TO REMEMBER SEVERAL BUILDERS COMMENTING THIS COMBINATION WORKS GREAT; THAT WHEN VAN DESIGNED THE CAPACITIVE, PLATE STYLE SENDING UNITS, HE INTENDED THAT THEY BE USED WITH THE EI GAUGE AND CONVERTERS. (THEY SURE DON'T WORK WITH THE PRINCETON/GRT SYSTEM.)
I'D APPRECIATE COMMENTS FROM ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH THE EI FUEL GAUGE AND CONVERTER UNITS AND CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS.
DAN BERGERON
RV-7A - N307TB
149 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV8-List message posted by: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
By the time you went to all that hassle, you could have just removed yours and insalled them. It really isn't that big of a deal!!! I'd even venture to say you could remove your tanks and do it right faster than working on your back with angle tools......
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com (mcingari(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV8-List message posted by: Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com (mcingari(at)gmail.com)>
Matt,
I would find someone with a QB 8 that has yet to install his S&W Floats and use his tanks to set up your floats.
Then just transfer them to your tanks. That would minimize the down time and could be done with the wings installed.
Good Luck,
Mike Cingari
On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV8-List Digest Server wrote:
[quote] *
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2010-06-09&Archive=RV8
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2010-06-09&Archive=RV8
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
RV8-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3(at)aol.com (ualpilot3(at)aol.com))
3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com))
6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com))
7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson)
8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy (Vince Himsl)
9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... ()
10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't
remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20
minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier
time in removing the tanks and doing it that way.
Just one builders opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Dear Listers,
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton
capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea
from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or
the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from
underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-
wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units
without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I
can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might
just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come
off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying
weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much
do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for
the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these
units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out
once, I definitely don't want to do this again!
Thanks for the insight...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
|
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
From: ualpilot3(at)aol.com (ualpilot3(at)aol.com)
Matt,
I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It
is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if you
have any questions. 210-887-4546
Les Bourne
--
| | - The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV8-List |
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av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
I have Van's capacitive senders in my tanks connected to AFS engine monitoring system, I would say it took a little time to calibrate them, and there not perfect they still are not to bad.
Mark Rose
137MR 8A
[quote] ---
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nickhelsper(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
I installed float type sending units (used with the grand rapids EIS) in an RV-7A a few years back. I remember the calibration took me several days to perfect. In the end, the calibration wasn't exact. I could make the system accurate from 0 to approx 3/4 full, or from 1/2 to completely full. I chose the 0 to approx 3/4 full calibration, to be on the safe side.
Overall, I was happy with the outcome. I think my customer was happy too.
~Nick Helsper
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:42 PM, <av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com (av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com)> wrote:
[quote] I have Van's capacitive senders in my tanks connected to AFS engine monitoring system, I would say it took a little time to calibrate them, and there not perfect they still are not to bad.
Mark Rose
137MR 8A
[quote] ---
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:07 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
For what it’s worth, I have the standard float senders and the Grand Rapids EIS. The nice aspect of the EIS is that you calibrate the readout to the tank level. Adding a gallon at a time, you note the EIS reading. Using the old line equation you learned in high school (Y = mX + B) and the data from the calibration, you solve for m and B (Y is the fuel level in gallons and X is the EIS reading at that level of gallons). For my plane I wanted the most accurate reading at low fuel levels so when bending the float arm I made sure the float travel went to the bottom of the tank. This yields at fuel indication range of 0 to 17 gallons. Any higher fuel level just reads 17 gallons.
I find the EIS readout to be consistently within a gallon or two of the JPI fuel flow meter (after the fuel level drops below 17 gallons). This provides excellent confirmation that the fuel you think you have left on the flow meter is really in the tanks – not leaking out or a result of getting a less than topped off tank.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (540 hrs)
RV-10 (system install)
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Bergeron
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 8:37 PM
To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders
HI ALL:
I'M ONE OF THE RV BUILDERS WHO'VE BEEN HASSLING WITH FUEL GAUGE ISSUES RIGHT FROM THE GET GO. I INSTALLED THE VANS CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS IN MY TANKS AT TIME OF INITIAL CONSTRUCTION, THNKING I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. THE CAPACITIVE VALUES FROM THE TANKS FEED INTO PRINCETON SENDING UNITS - GET CONVERTED TO VOLTAGE VALUES - WHICH THEN FEED INTO THE EIS - AND FROM THERE TO THE GRT SCREEN. THIS COMBINATION DOESN'T WORK WORTH A DARN - IT'S DOWNRIGHT USELESS. THE GRT (GRAND RAPIDS TECHNOLOGY) IS A GREAT SYSTEM AND, WITH THIS ONE EXCEPTION, I'M VERY HAPPY WITH IT.
I'M CONSIDERING DROPPING THE TANKS AND INSTALLING FLOAT TYPE SENDING UNITS. I KNOW FLOATS AREN'T ALL THAT ACCURATE BUT THEY'D SURE BEAT WHAT I'VE GOT NOW - WHICH IS ABOUT LIKE HAVING NO GAUGES AT ALL.
HOWEVER - I'VE BEEN MULLING OVER ANOTHER OPTION - WHICH IS TO BUY AND INSTALL THE VANS EI FL - 2C GAUGE (at) $415 AND TWO IE P - 300C CONVERTERS (at) $45 EACH - A TOTAL OF $505 PLUS SHIPPING. I HATE TO PART WITH THE $ BUT I'VE GOT PLENTY OF SPACE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PANEL AND I SEEM TO REMEMBER SEVERAL BUILDERS COMMENTING THIS COMBINATION WORKS GREAT; THAT WHEN VAN DESIGNED THE CAPACITIVE, PLATE STYLE SENDING UNITS, HE INTENDED THAT THEY BE USED WITH THE EI GAUGE AND CONVERTERS. (THEY SURE DON'T WORK WITH THE PRINCETON/GRT SYSTEM.)
I'D APPRECIATE COMMENTS FROM ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH THE EI FUEL GAUGE AND CONVERTER UNITS AND CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS.
DAN BERGERON
RV-7A - N307TB
149 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
--> RV8-List message posted by: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
By the time you went to all that hassle, you could have just removed yours and insalled them. It really isn't that big of a deal!!! I'd even venture to say you could remove your tanks and do it right faster than working on your back with angle tools......
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com (mcingari(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> RV8-List message posted by: Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com (mcingari(at)gmail.com)>
Matt,
I would find someone with a QB 8 that has yet to install his S&W Floats and use his tanks to set up your floats.
Then just transfer them to your tanks. That would minimize the down time and could be done with the wings installed.
Good Luck,
Mike Cingari
On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV8-List Digest Server wrote:
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2010-06-09&Archive=RV8
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2010-06-09&Archive=RV8
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
RV8-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3(at)aol.com (ualpilot3(at)aol.com))
3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com))
6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com))
7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson)
8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy (Vince Himsl)
9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... ()
10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't
remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20
minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier
time in removing the tanks and doing it that way.
Just one builders opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
Dear Listers,
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton
capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea
from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or
the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from
underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-
wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units
without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I
can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might
just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come
off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying
weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much
do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for
the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these
units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out
once, I definitely don't want to do this again!
Thanks for the insight...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
From: ualpilot3(at)aol.com (ualpilot3(at)aol.com)
Matt,
I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It
is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if you
have any questions. 210-887-4546
Les Bourne
--
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martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
Dan,
I am approaching 2000 hours on my RV8 equiped with the E I fuel gauge and flat plate sensors inside of the fuel tanks. They are accurate within 1 gallon at any quantity between 2 and 40 gallons. Also when fuel level is low, they start to flash as a warning.
Good luck
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
dan,
I
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Dan Bergeron <dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com (dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]HI ALL: I'M ONE OF THE RV BUILDERS WHO'VE BEEN HASSLING WITH FUEL GAUGE ISSUES RIGHT FROM THE GET GO. I INSTALLED THE VANS CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS IN MY TANKS AT TIME OF INITIAL CONSTRUCTION, THNKING I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. THE CAPACITIVE VALUES FROM THE TANKS FEED INTO PRINCETON SENDING UNITS - GET CONVERTED TO VOLTAGE VALUES - WHICH THEN FEED INTO THE EIS - AND FROM THERE TO THE GRT SCREEN. THIS COMBINATION DOESN'T WORK WORTH A DARN - IT'S DOWNRIGHT USELESS. THE GRT (GRAND RAPIDS TECHNOLOGY) IS A GREAT SYSTEM AND, WITH THIS ONE EXCEPTION, I'M VERY HAPPY WITH IT.
I'M CONSIDERING DROPPING THE TANKS AND INSTALLING FLOAT TYPE SENDING UNITS. I KNOW FLOATS AREN'T ALL THAT ACCURATE BUT THEY'D SURE BEAT WHAT I'VE GOT NOW - WHICH IS ABOUT LIKE HAVING NO GAUGES AT ALL.
HOWEVER - I'VE BEEN MULLING OVER ANOTHER OPTION - WHICH IS TO BUY AND INSTALL THE VANS EI FL - 2C GAUGE (at) $415 AND TWO IE P - 300C CONVERTERS (at) $45 EACH - A TOTAL OF $505 PLUS SHIPPING. I HATE TO PART WITH THE $ BUT I'VE GOT PLENTY OF SPACE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PANEL AND I SEEM TO REMEMBER SEVERAL BUILDERS COMMENTING THIS COMBINATION WORKS GREAT; THAT WHEN VAN DESIGNED THE CAPACITIVE, PLATE STYLE SENDING UNITS, HE INTENDED THAT THEY BE USED WITH THE EI GAUGE AND CONVERTERS. (THEY SURE DON'T WORK WITH THE PRINCETON/GRT SYSTEM.)
I'D APPRECIATE COMMENTS FROM ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH THE EI FUEL GAUGE AND CONVERTER UNITS AND CAPACITIVE PLATE SENDING UNITS.
DAN BERGERON
RV-7A - N307TB
149 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/09
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV8-List message posted by: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
By the time you went to all that hassle, you could have just removed yours and insalled them. It really isn't that big of a deal!!! I'd even venture to say you could remove your tanks and do it right faster than working on your back with angle tools......
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:56 AM, Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com (mcingari(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV8-List message posted by: Mike Cingari <mcingari(at)gmail.com (mcingari(at)gmail.com)>
Matt,
I would find someone with a QB 8 that has yet to install his S&W Floats and use his tanks to set up your floats.
Then just transfer them to your tanks. That would minimize the down time and could be done with the wings installed.
Good Luck,
Mike Cingari
On Jun 9, 2010, at 11:59 PM, RV8-List Digest Server wrote:
[quote]*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete RV8-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the RV8-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2010-06-09&Archive=RV8
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2010-06-09&Archive=RV8
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
RV8-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 06/09/10: 10
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (Michael Kraus)
2. 07:03 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (ualpilot3(at)aol.com (ualpilot3(at)aol.com))
3. 08:13 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
4. 08:51 AM - Replacing Fuel Level Senders... (George Inman 204 287 8334)
5. 09:31 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com))
6. 10:09 AM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com))
7. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders (Terry Watson)
8. 01:19 PM - Van's Float type fuel indicator sensor bending accuracy (Vince Himsl)
9. 04:44 PM - Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders.. ()
10. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: fuel selector-(both) (Gordon or Marge)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:49:11 AM PST US
From: Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)>
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
I removed my tanks on my RV-4 to make some modifications. I don't
remember it being a big deal at all. I think it took less than 20
minutes per side with a drill motor. I think you'd have a much easier
time in removing the tanks and doing it that way.
Just one builders opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 9, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Dear Listers,
Well, okay, so I've resigned myself to replacing my Princeton
capacitance fuel level probes with the standard S&W float probea
from Van's. Has anyone replaced these without removing the wing or
the fuel tank from the airplane? Basically just doing it from
underneath the airplane through the gap afforded by the fuselage-to-
wing fairing? Is this even possible?
I know that it won't be possible to remove the Princeton units
without destroying them, but can the S&W probes be installed? If I
can do it without pulling the fuel tanks or wings off, then I might
just tackle this sooner than later. But if the tanks have to come
off, then I might procrastinate more and enjoy the great flying
weather. That being said, I'm going in for paint in either August
or October and it has to be complete before then either way.
Arg, why couldn't those Princeton probes just work? Geeze, how much
do you have to spend to get a product that works. How frustrating.
So, how accurate are the bending dimensions on the Van's plans for
the S&W float arms? I've got no way to test or trial fit these
units so its a one-shot deal. I've already pulled the probes out
once, I definitely don't want to do this again!
Thanks for the insight...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Blog
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor!
|
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 07:03:40 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Replacing Fuel Level Senders...
From: ualpilot3(at)aol.com (ualpilot3(at)aol.com)
Matt,
I just pulled the fuel senders off a RV-8A to replace the gasket. It
is no problem doing it through the tank-fuselage space. Call me if you
have any questions. 210-887-4546
Les Bourne
--
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25627
Location: Livermore CA USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to install them during construction of the tank?
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: Enjoying The Fruits of 2500 Hours of Labor...
At 11:11 AM 6/16/2010 Wednesday, you wrote:
| Quote: | Dan,
I am approaching 2000 hours on my RV8 equiped with the E I fuel gauge and flat plate sensors inside of the fuel tanks. They are accurate within 1 gallon at any quantity between 2 and 40 gallons. Also when fuel level is low, they start to flash as a warning.
Good luck
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast on
|
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bifft(at)xmission.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010, Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: |
Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to
install them during construction of the tank?
|
I don't think it could be done without taking the back baffle off.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 fitting wings.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
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n8zg(at)att.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
Matt -
You could install Van's capacitive plates by cutting access panels in the
rear baffle. Make parts similar to T-407 and T-408 (but without the extra
holes) to close the rear baffle. Or simply Proseal and pop-rivet a patch
over the holes you make.
Neal
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dan.pat.b(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
|
|
BRIAN:THE FLAT PLATE CAPACITIVE PROBES HAVE TO BE INSTALLED DURING CONSTRUCTION OF THE TANKS. THERE IS NO PRACTICAL WAY TO RETROFIT THEM AFTER THE TANKS ARE FINISHED. YOU'D HAVE TO REMOVE THE BACK OF THE TANK.
I'VE DECIDED TO SOLVE MY FUEL GAUGE ISSUE BY INSTALLING AN EI FUEL GAUGE ON THE PANEL AND VANS CONVERTER UNITS UNDER THE FLOOR BOARDS. OTHER BUILDERS REPORT GOOD RESULTS WITH THAT SETUP. (I HAVE VANS CAPACITIVE PLATES IN THE TANKS, PRINCETON CONVERTER UNITS UNDER THE FLOOR, A GRT EIS BOX AND GRT DISPLAY UNITS. THE GRT SETUP IS GREAT, BUT THAT COMBINATION FOR FUEL MEASUREMENT PURPOSES IS USELESS.
DAN BERGERON
RV-7A - N307TB
150 HOURS SINCE FIRST
FLIGHT ON 08/04/10
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com (bifft(at)xmission.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV8-List message posted by: Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com (bifft(at)xmission.com)>
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010, Matt Dralle wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
>
> Are the flatplate probes installable as a retro fit or do you have to
>install them during construction of the tank?
I don't think it could be done without taking the back baffle off.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com (bifft(at)xmission.com))
RV-8A 80091 fitting wings.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
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av8er2fly(at)peoplepc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: Replacing Fuel Level Senders |
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Sorry Matt but they need to be installed when building the tanks. Mark Rose
RV8A 137MR
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