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clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?



K. Toney

SC

582

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

 	  Quote: 	
		   The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?

 

 K. Toney

 SC

 582


	


 



 



K.Toney,



 



  On my MkIII, there's a long steel strap (that I fabricated according to the plans),



that goes from the double spring arrangment to the lever arm of the trim tab.  If I needed to correct my tension like you say you need to do, I'd simply relocate the present hole in the strap to a closer hole on the strap, thereby shortening the effective cable length.



  At any rate, you should be able to redo your strap mount a hole or two shorter.



 



Mike Welch



MkIII



 



 		 	   		  

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clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

Thanks Mike, 

I'll check to see if I can adjust like you said.

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: Elevator trim

While Mike's suggestion is certainly worthwhile, it's a bandaid to incorrect horizontal stabilizer incidence from the way you describe it. Have you checked to make sure this is per spec?



Rick Girard

 

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]      > The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 K. Toney

 > SC
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   582

  
	


  



 K.Toney,

  

   On my MkIII, there's a long steel strap (that I fabricated according to the plans),

 that goes from the double spring arrangment to the lever arm of the trim tab.  If I needed to correct my tension like you say you need to do, I'd simply relocate the present hole in the strap to a closer hole on the strap, thereby shortening the effective cable length.

    At any rate, you should be able to redo your strap mount a hole or two shorter.

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

  



 		 	   		  

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

The spring tension on mine is adjusted such that with the trim lever all the way forward, the trim springs exert no pressure on the elevator at all, it just hangs down. The trim lever begins to exert some effect when it is a couple notches up, and when I have a full size passenger, it needs to be all the way up or close to it. Hope that helps.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: Elevator trim

While Mike's suggestion is certainly worthwhile, it's a bandaid to incorrect horizontal stabilizer incidence from the way you describe it. Have you checked to make sure this is per spec?

 



 Rick Girard



 Rick,

  

   Bandaid??  He asked how to adjust the elevator trim to have better action.  I explained how.  He didn't say he had a problem with stabilizer incidence, or I could have given him the OEM setting.

  

 Mike



  

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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: Elevator trim

Guys

  The system is designed to relieve back pressure load on the stick.The amount of weight in the seats  or forward of the cg is the variable

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:27 am Post subject: Elevator trim

Do this the way that you are most comfortable with but I set my trim so that the first notch is neutral for me solo in the airplane. When I carry a passenger I move it to a mid point in the trim range and by trial and error trim the plane. When I go back to flying by my self I go back to the first notch where the trim is perfect 1st time.

   

 There should be a short tab where the trim lever attaches to the elevator cable with a bunch of holes that should allow you to adjust the trim range.

  

 Rick Neilsen

 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC 

 On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:44 PM, clrprop <ktony(at)windstream.net (ktony(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "clrprop" <ktony(at)windstream.net (ktony(at)windstream.net)>

 

The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?



K. Toney

SC

582

 



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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301256#301256



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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

The trim on the MKIII is set up to only pull back on the stick with a spring.  With the trim all the way forward, Ideally, you should be able to fly solo close to trimmed out.  If when you are flying solo you need to push the stick forward, you should check and see if there is any tension on the trim spring.  If there is not, making the spring more slack is not going to give you any additional nose down trim.  As with some of the other people here, my trim is almost full forward when solo and moves back from there depending on how heavy of passenger I have.



Jason

MKIII

Portland OR

 	  clrprop wrote: 	
		  The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?



K. Toney

SC

582

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: Elevator trim

Jason,

  

   I think you might be reading his "forward & backward" backwards.  At least, that's what it seems to me.

  

   From what I understood, according to his description, he needs MORE pull on the springs, not less, as you describe.

   I got the impression he want a way to preload the springs a little bit more than they are at rest.  Like I said......that's what I understood.

   BTW, I have my trim tab spring arrangement to hold the elevator flat level at about the 3rd notch from the bottom.  By about the 7-8th notch up, the elevator is held in the full

 up position.

  

 Mike Welch

MkIII

  

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   The trim on the MKIII is set up to only pull back on the stick with a spring. With the trim all the way forward, Ideally, you should be able to fly solo close to trimmed out. If when you are flying solo you need to push the stick forward, you should check and see if there is any tension on the trim spring. If there is not, making the spring more slack is not going to give you any additional nose down trim. As with some of the other people here, my trim is almost full forward when solo and moves back from there depending on how heavy of passenger I have.

 

 Jason

 MKIII

 Portland OR

 

 

 

 clrprop wrote:

 > The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?

 > 

 > K. Toney

 > SC

 > 582

 

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301297#301297

 

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by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: Elevator trim

The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on  the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at  mid point for neutral elevator?



K. Toney

SC

582



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 k toney

  

 guess i would check to see if at any time you  needed down trim...  if so modify away.  

  

 in my plane  even flying near rear cg no down  trim is necessary...   and i only add up trim as the cg moves  forward.   

  

 the trim springs are a tension spring  only...    in order to provide down trim you would have to be  able to tie into a spring assembly at mid point in order to provide push and  pull trim movements. this would require a much more rigid assembly.    

  

 the other possibility is to move the leading edge  of the stabilizers up.  eliminating any need for down  trim.

  

 boyd young

  

   [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

Kolb guys,

  

   After rereading K. Toney's original post, I may be the off is misunderstanding his description.  I shall refrain from making any comments until he is able to better clarify his exact dilemma.

  

 Respectfully, 

 Mike Welch 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Elevator trim

 From: ktony(at)windstream.net

 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:44:41 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "clrprop" <ktony(at)windstream.net>

 

 The elevator trim on my Mark III is set up so that it takes full forward on the lever just to give me neutral elevator. How do I correct so that lever is at mid point for neutral elevator?

 

 K. Toney

 SC

 582

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301256#301256

 

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		  [b]

clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

I'm wanting more down trim. CG is in range. With one person, forward pressure on the stick is needed for level flight. Even with two people, up elevator trim has never been needed.

I don't have any specs for the plane but hor. stab is attached at center of boom rear and top of boom forward. I can check and find out how stab incidence compares to wing.



K. Toney

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: Elevator trim

> I'm wanting more down trim. 

 > K. Toney



 Kolb guys,

  

   Looks like it was me that misread what he was after.  I read it that he needed more "up" trim.  Apologies to those who got it right.

  

 Mike Welch

  

  

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: Elevator trim

> I'm wanting more down trim.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 K. Toney


	




If it was mine (I think we are talking about a MKIII) I would droop the 

ailerons and flaps a litttle at a time until I got the aircraft trimmed up 

in pitch.



Normally, MKIII's require a lot of nose up pitch trim, especially under 

power.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

I'll do that John. Thanks.

Ailerons and flaps are neutral, or in line with the bottom of the wing now. Should drag stay the same since I won't be having to add down elevator?



K. Toney

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'll do that John. Thanks.

 Ailerons and flaps are neutral, or in line with the bottom of the wing 

 now. Should drag stay the same since I won't be having to add down 

 elevator?



 K. Toney


	


K.Toney/Gang:



What the airplane components look like on the ground (what their positions 

are) are not necessarily what they look like in the air.



Have no idea about drag, but if it were me, I would not be concerned about 

it.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

I'm not sure I understand. We're talking about changing the length of the control rods so ailerons and/or flaps will have a little down in them? Wouldn't that be noticeable on the ground with the stick centered?



K. Toney



Sorry if I'm not following protocol with quotes and all. I'm not sure how all that works...

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: Elevator trim

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm not sure I understand. We're talking about changing the length of the 

 control rods so ailerons and/or flaps will have a little down in them? 

 Wouldn't that be noticeable on the ground with the stick centered?



 K. Toney


	




Yes, you will see some position change on the ground, but the control 

surfaces will not be in the same position when the mkIII is flying.



If they are drooped a little on the ground, they are going to fly a little 

higher in the air.



Same thing occurs when playing with engine thrust lines.  The engine takes 

on a different position in the air when under power than when sitting static 

on the ground.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator trim

So if the control surfaces are flushed up with the wing on the ground, they could all be pointing up a bit in flight? 

Either way, I think this will solve my problem.



K Toney



Mark IIIc

SC

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