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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: Re; Fluttering control surfaces |
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Question: Could control flutter be moderated or corrected by adjusting the ailerons slightly down. For example, when neutralized adjust the tail end of them to be about an inch down, to tension them against the air flow. I realize that it would create a little drag, but a 103 spec aircraft doesn't need extra weight.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:22 am Post subject: Re; Fluttering control surfaces |
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The simple answer is no. Balance is balance. You can save a little weight by using steel tube instead of the solid rod used by Kolb and the making a lead plug for one end as the balance weight. One thing that will help a 103 compliant aircraft is build those ailerons light. If using the Polyfiber system read and reread Appendix A of the manual. Somewhere I have a very short piece of film showing the ailerons on my Mk III going lock to lock during a flyby. Scared the ****** out of me. I had Travis send the counterbalance hardware that day and put them on the minute they arrived.
IMHO this just isn't the place to skimp.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:27 AM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote] Question: Could control flutter be moderated or corrected by adjusting the ailerons slightly down. For example, when neutralized adjust the tail end of them to be about an inch down, to tension them against the air flow. I realize that it would create a little drag, but a 103 spec aircraft doesn't need extra weight.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: Re; Fluttering control surfaces |
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>The simple answer is no. Balance is balance.
>Rick Girard
Rick, people that know more than me,
I don't have much (any?) experience with control surface fluttering. That's why it is important to me. I don't want to overlook something, and have the whole thing come crashing down because of something I didn't inquire about.
Regarding control surfaces, all of them; Will a perfectly balanced aileron, rudder, or elevator, etc, be immune from fluttering during flight?
In other words, is it that simple? Balance the flight surface and you will have NO problem with flutter. If that's all it is, it seems pretty easy to make sure I don't have an issue with fluttering, by making sure everything is balanced properly.
Mike Welch
MkIII, unbalanced at the moment
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:40 am Post subject: Re; Fluttering control surfaces |
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Yes, that would cure all your flutter problems.
However, "perfect" balance is not necessary in my humble opinion. Close is good enough, again my opinion and personal experience.
Elevators have not been a problem, and I fly my mkIII without elevator counterbalance weights and gap seals.
Rudders will shuffle and flutter if allowed to progress, but a little pressure on rudder pedals prevents this. You can install a counter balance weight on the rudder, or a couple additional rudder pedal springs will get the job done. I have no gap seal on rudder.
When I built my mkIII I knew I would probably encounter aileron flutter based on aileron flutter experienced with my Ultrastar and Firestar. I designed a pair of beautiful counterbalance weights which were mounted on the inboard end of the ailerons. On my first flight to my local airport, as I banked and entered downwind, I experienced severe aileron flutter, well below the 85 mph that it would flutter with no counterbalance weights. I landed quick, borrowed a screw driver and promptly removed my counterbalance weights. As long as I kept it under 85 mph I stayed out of flutter.
I could not convince Kolb Aircraft that their airplanes were prone to flutter because factory airplanes had not been there. 1993, I made flights to Lakeland, Pennsylvania, and Oshkosh, fighting flutter all the way. In smooth air the ailerons fluttered at 85 mph, but in turbulence the rough, unpredictable air would trigger it at lower airspeeds. It was not fun to fly long cross country flights with aileron flutter lurking to kick my butt.
Can't remember the year, but it was at Lakeland, Dick Rahill was flying back from Lakeland South to Paradise City trying to outrun a thunder storm. He was flying the factory FS in rough air and wide open throttle. Suddenly he got into severe aileron flutter. The man was white as a ghost when he landed. That must have been enough to convince Kolb Aircraft that there was the distinct possibility that Kolbs could experience aileron flutter. Very shortly after they returned to PA the had a pair of aileron counterbalance weights designed and fabricated for the FS. Little Mike sent me the second set of counterbalance weights for my mkIII. Although they were a little light for the mkIII, they were all I had. I installed them and have never come close to experiencing aileron flutter again, although I am flying with rod end bearings and aileron control components that have about 2,800.0 hours, and are loose as a goose.
Do what you want to do, but the above is what works for me, and I don't mean a couple times around the patch, but thousands of hours in every kind of weather and geographic condition you can imagine.
john h
mkIII
[quote] Regarding control surfaces, all of them; Will a perfectly balanced aileron, rudder, or elevator, etc, be immune from fluttering during flight?
In other words, is it that simple? Balance the flight surface and you will have NO problem with flutter. If that's all it is, it seems pretty easy to make sure I don't have an issue with fluttering, by making sure everything is balanced properly.
Mike Welch
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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