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Foreflight Question

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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

I was flying yesterday using Foreflight on my iphone or the first time, and after a bit I lost my cell phone signal (still had gps signal) and a "cannot connect to Foreflight" window popped up and the program stopped.  I had the maps downloaded on the iPhone and I assumed it would work like SkyCharts does, with or without cell service.  Are others seeing this?  I shut the program down, restarted, it worked for 10-20 seconds, then I got the message again.  I was hoping I could somehow acknowledge the message and have the program continue normally, but no such luck.  So I used SkyCharts the rest of the flight.....

-Mike Kraus



Sent from my iPhone

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

The same thing happened to me on my ipad a couple days ago but it  

ended up working fine for me.   I think I fixed it by one of a couple  

things....either it was by disabling wifi and cellular data, or it was  

from just tapping that dialog box an it went away.  I try to get in  

the habit of disabling all the extra RF things anyway, so not having  

them on might have helped tell the software that it shouldn't bother  

connecting....but I do believe I got the pop up and after tapping it  

it went away.  I'll have to test it on another flight and see.  Maybe  

they introduced that or it's a bug in the new 3,51 version.  You  

should ask them by emailing them at team(at)foreflight.com.  I've found  

them very responsive.  Personally, the software is now full of so many  

features that even though skycharts worked good for me too, I stopped  

doing chart updates with skycharts.  My only complaint, one that I'm  

going to tell them at OSH, is that I'd wish they reverse their  

decision about geo referenced approach charts.  They said the ipad gps  

wasn't accurate enough and couldn't be trusted for precision ifr.  I  

say, since some of us can use Bluetooth gps, they should do it, but  

with a disclaimer...because my gps is plenty accurate.



Anyway, play with it and I'm sure you'll find a way to get rid of the  

message, but email them too...maybe they'll remove it from software or  

fix it.

Tim



On Jul 3, 2010, at 7:19 AM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>  

wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 I was flying yesterday using Foreflight on my iphone or the first  

 time, and after a bit I lost my cell phone signal (still had gps  

 signal) and a "cannot connect to Foreflight" window popped up and  

 the program stopped.  I had the maps downloaded on the iPhone and I  

 assumed it would work like SkyCharts does, with or without cell  

 service.  Are others seeing this?  I shut the program down,  

 restarted, it worked for 10-20 seconds, then I got the message  

 again.  I was hoping I could somehow acknowledge the message and  

 have the program continue normally, but no such luck.  So I used  

 SkyCharts the rest of the flight.....

 -Mike Kraus



 Sent from my iPhone

Bill Schlatterer

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: Foreflight Question

Never been able to get it to work above 1500 feet.  Cell phone doesn't work

and it won't track on a map either.  Not sure it's designed to do that.

Understand that the iPad has been tested to 12,500 and works OK but that's

just on the company site.



Bill S

7a flying in August (this August  



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: Foreflight Question

Works fine for me at 9500' and we can't get cell above 1000.

Tim

On Jul 3, 2010, at 7:33 PM, "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net 

 > wrote:

[quote] 

 >

 Never been able to get it to work above 1500 feet.  Cell phone  

 doesn't work

 and it won't track on a map either.  Not sure it's designed to do  

 that.

 Understand that the iPad has been tested to 12,500 and works OK but  

 that's

 just on the company site.

 Bill S

 7a flying in August (this August 

 --

sean(at)hangerg.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:18 pm Post subject: Foreflight Question

works great up at 36K using bluetooth GPS

On Jul 3, 2010, at 10:09 PM, Tim Olson wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Works fine for me at 9500' and we can't get cell above 1000.

 Tim

 

 

 

 On Jul 3, 2010, at 7:33 PM, "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Never been able to get it to work above 1500 feet.  Cell phone doesn't work

> and it won't track on a map either.  Not sure it's designed to do that.

> Understand that the iPad has been tested to 12,500 and works OK but that's

> just on the company site.

> 

> Bill S

> 7a flying in August (this August 

> 

> --

Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: Foreflight Question

Funny, my iPhone with AT&T service works better at 7,500' over Santa

Barbara than it works in downtown Santa Barbara. Go figure.



Robin

Do Not Archive

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

It's funny, it's region specific.  When I'm in the mountains, like

enroute to SLC, I get reception at 10,000' just fine.  Over most

of the US I get nothing.  But, over some areas I do get reception

at middle altitudes.  I think in mountainous areas they must be less

restrictive of the elevation angles that they allow their signal

to go.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 7/4/2010 12:36 AM, Robin Marks wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Funny, my iPhone with AT&T service works better at 7,500' over Santa

 Barbara than it works in downtown Santa Barbara. Go figure.



 Robin

 Do Not Archive

egohr1

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Oklahoma City

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Foreflight Question

Just spend 12 hours with foreflight in the RV-10.  The can not connect only showed up when it had a intermittent cell signal at 8K.  At 10K it did not have the popup. Other than the pop up, what a great way to carry charts.  We flew from OK to NY and back and had all the charts on display for the entire trip.  The GPS in the Ipad is a little slower to respond than the 430, but in level flight was just as accurate.



PS.  This is the easiest way to file a flight plan I have see.  Worked great for IFR plans at a fuel stop.  Pickup up airborne with no issues.

_________________
eric gohr
EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

could it be that at some altitudes or regions too many cell towers are 

stroked and the cell system drops contact? If a signal is hitting 20+ cell 

towers , the computers could get confused.

---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

All the cell sites use signal strength as a means of choosing which cell 

site to hand off to.  Dropped calls are mostly due to the computer 

handling traffic and not getting back to handling the control of your 

signal ..... you're just covering too much ground too fast ...... and by 

the time your device interrogates a cell site and the computer allocates 

a channel ..... well, you're already out of range.  Altitude does play a 

part because the cell site will reject an interrogation below a signal 

strength threshold.  What I don't understand is why the device with a 

good GPS lock n eeds to communicate with the ground.

Linn

DLM wrote:

[quote] 



 could it be that at some altitudes or regions too many cell towers are 

 stroked and the cell system drops contact? If a signal is hitting 20+ 

 cell towers , the computers could get confused.

 ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:52 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

The answer to my it connects to the ground is....   It doesn't "need"  

to at all, but if you have data enabled it will try to, as it wants to  

get your email and other updates....even checking for app updates.    

If you just turn off data and turn off wifi it won't try to do anything.

Also, I find that if you do use Bluetooth gps, you can put the phone/ 

pad in airplane mode and disable all other things including cell, and  

save battery.

Bluetooth gps mode isn't too hard on batteries, but what IS hard on  

them is being in low signal conditions.....your phone will try to  

boost it's power to reach a signal, and thus uses more power.  So  

airplane mode with Bluetooth gps will save battery life and give you  

better quality gps.  As Ira noted, the gps in the iDevices is  

ok...fine for most things, but the gps is on the low end of the  

quality spectrum.  It takes longer to lock in some cases too.

Different than Ira, I find the brightness on the ipad to be good in an  

RV10 with our non-bubble canopy.  I think most things would be awful  

in bubble canopies tho.  I have photos comparing it to my LE1600 with  

view anywhere and it's definitely better....but, I have the Brando  

anti-glare screen cover on the ipad....without it the reflections  

would drive me nuts.

And, as Eric noted, I've found that foreflight is the absolute fastest  

and easiest way to file a flight plan.  It really rocks.

Tim

On Jul 4, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>  

wrote:

[quote] 

 >

 All the cell sites use signal strength as a means of choosing which  

 cell site to hand off to.  Dropped calls are mostly due to the  

 computer handling traffic and not getting back to handling the  

 control of your signal ..... you're just covering too much ground  

 too fast ...... and by the time your device interrogates a cell site  

 and the computer allocates a channel ..... well, you're already out  

 of range.  Altitude does play a part because the cell site will  

 reject an interrogation below a signal strength threshold.  What I  

 don't understand is why the device with a good GPS lock n eeds to  

 communicate with the ground.

 Linn

 DLM wrote:

> 

>

> could it be that at some altitudes or regions too many cell towers  

> are stroked and the cell system drops contact? If a signal is  

> hitting 20+ cell towers , the computers could get confused.

> ---

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject: Foreflight Question

I saw a demo of Skycharts on Ipad this morning, compared to

Foreflight. Skycharts was MUCH faster drawing the screen, allowed

direct to whatever airport/fix you wanted, had VFR, VFR with terrain,

IFR and approach plates all included. The approach plates are not

geo-referenced, but had everything else could want. Hard to believe

Foreflight doesn't have a direct to function.

I have a BT Globalsat 359 GPS. Does any bluetooth stack for Ipad work,

or does it need to be device specific?

The built-in GPS was giving 10 M accuracy sitting in airport cafe,

although I believe wifi was on and we were in range of wifi hotspot.

On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

[quote] 

 The answer to my it connects to the ground is....   It doesn't "need" to at

 all, but if you have data enabled it will try to, as it wants to get your

 email and other updates....even checking for app updates.   If you just turn

 off data and turn off wifi it won't try to do anything.

 Also, I find that if you do use Bluetooth gps, you can put the phone/pad in

 airplane mode and disable all other things including cell, and save battery.

 Bluetooth gps mode isn't too hard on batteries, but what IS hard on them is

 being in low signal conditions.....your phone will try to boost it's power

 to reach a signal, and thus uses more power.  So airplane mode with

 Bluetooth gps will save battery life and give you better quality gps.  As

 Ira noted, the gps in the iDevices is ok...fine for most things, but the gps

 is on the low end of the quality spectrum.  It takes longer to lock in some

 cases too.

 Different than Ira, I find the brightness on the ipad to be good in an RV10

 with our non-bubble canopy.  I think most things would be awful in bubble

 canopies tho.  I have photos comparing it to my LE1600 with view anywhere

 and it's definitely better....but, I have the Brando anti-glare screen cover

 on the ipad....without it the reflections would drive me nuts.

 And, as Eric noted, I've found that foreflight is the absolute fastest and

 easiest way to file a flight plan.  It really rocks.

 Tim

 On Jul 4, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

> 

>

> All the cell sites use signal strength as a means of choosing which cell

> site to hand off to.  Dropped calls are mostly due to the computer handling

> traffic and not getting back to handling the control of your signal .....

> you're just covering too much ground too fast ...... and by the time your

> device interrogates a cell site and the computer allocates a channel .....

> well, you're already out of range.  Altitude does play a part because the

> cell site will reject an interrogation below a signal strength threshold.

>  What I don't understand is why the device with a good GPS lock n eeds to

> communicate with the ground.

> Linn

> DLM wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> could it be that at some altitudes or regions too many cell towers are

>> stroked and the cell system drops contact? If a signal is hitting 20+ cell

>> towers , the computers could get confused.

>> ---

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:48 am Post subject: Foreflight Question

I have Skycharts on the ipad and have been using it for about a month.  I find it very simple to use in actual IFR conditions where you need to get to the plates fast and easy.  Two taps on any airport will give you the plates for the airport.  One tap will switch between IFR, VFR and TAC charts.  Other than a simple route planning (including Direct-To), that is about all there is to it.

After reading the discussions on this list in the past few days, I went ahead and downloaded the Forefight to try out.  I found Foreflight to function more like a computer program, rich with options and menus, something PERHAPS more useful on the ground than in actual IFR flights.  In contrast, I found Skycharts to be stripped down to replace the paper charts and plates you carried during the flight.

I am not saying one is better or worse.  I am hoping that someone can write about their Foreflight experience while flying in IMC and shooting approaches.

Rob.

Do not archive

On Jul 4, 2010, at 5:03 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote] 

 I saw a demo of Skycharts on Ipad this morning, compared to

 Foreflight. Skycharts was MUCH faster drawing the screen, allowed

 direct to whatever airport/fix you wanted, had VFR, VFR with terrain,

 IFR and approach plates all included. The approach plates are not

 geo-referenced, but had everything else could want. Hard to believe

 Foreflight doesn't have a direct to function.

 I have a BT Globalsat 359 GPS. Does any bluetooth stack for Ipad work,

 or does it need to be device specific?

 The built-in GPS was giving 10 M accuracy sitting in airport cafe,

 although I believe wifi was on and we were in range of wifi hotspot.

 On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> The answer to my it connects to the ground is....   It doesn't "need" to at

> all, but if you have data enabled it will try to, as it wants to get your

> email and other updates....even checking for app updates.   If you just turn

> off data and turn off wifi it won't try to do anything.

> Also, I find that if you do use Bluetooth gps, you can put the phone/pad in

> airplane mode and disable all other things including cell, and save battery.

> Bluetooth gps mode isn't too hard on batteries, but what IS hard on them is

> being in low signal conditions.....your phone will try to boost it's power

> to reach a signal, and thus uses more power.  So airplane mode with

> Bluetooth gps will save battery life and give you better quality gps.  As

> Ira noted, the gps in the iDevices is ok...fine for most things, but the gps

> is on the low end of the quality spectrum.  It takes longer to lock in some

> cases too.

> 

> Different than Ira, I find the brightness on the ipad to be good in an RV10

> with our non-bubble canopy.  I think most things would be awful in bubble

> canopies tho.  I have photos comparing it to my LE1600 with view anywhere

> and it's definitely better....but, I have the Brando anti-glare screen cover

> on the ipad....without it the reflections would drive me nuts.

> 

> And, as Eric noted, I've found that foreflight is the absolute fastest and

> easiest way to file a flight plan.  It really rocks.

> Tim

> 

> 

> 

> On Jul 4, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> All the cell sites use signal strength as a means of choosing which cell

>> site to hand off to.  Dropped calls are mostly due to the computer handling

>> traffic and not getting back to handling the control of your signal .....

>> you're just covering too much ground too fast ...... and by the time your

>> device interrogates a cell site and the computer allocates a channel .....

>> well, you're already out of range.  Altitude does play a part because the

>> cell site will reject an interrogation below a signal strength threshold.

>> What I don't understand is why the device with a good GPS lock n eeds to

>> communicate with the ground.

>> Linn

>> 

>> 

>> DLM wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> could it be that at some altitudes or regions too many cell towers are

>>> stroked and the cell system drops contact? If a signal is hitting 20+ cell

>>> towers , the computers could get confused.

>>> ---

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Foreflight Question

Hi Kelly,



Once the GPS chip has a useable set of signals, the cell connection makes

no contribution to location accuracy. With enough sky and sats visible,

you should routinely seen 5 m accuracy.  I don't know if any of the current

software is written to take advantage of the extra features of an external

(BT) GPS yet - its a good question.



Apparently, none of the software I've tried use the built in compass in the

iPad either.



As for SkyCharts, I've been using it on my phone for many months and

more recently on the iPad.  I find it a bit finicky when it comes to double

tapping the screen to get the wx. I usually have to try a few times. I would

think making the tap radius a pixel or two wider would help.



The Foreflight system is much easier to get to AFD info and plates without

fussing.



This weekend when it was nearly 100F on Long Island, I took the iPad

for another ride in the Europa.  I laid it flat, face up on the pax seat

when I turned on to the active.  The yellow triangle of heat stroke

appeared in 4 minutes. The case was 122F by my lab-cert IR temp probe.



I haven't tried the ipad in actual yet, but then, if its cloudy and cool, 

maybe I can see the screen?

_________________
Ira N224XS

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