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soldering

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tc1917(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:07 am Post subject: soldering

I would like to add something to the 'solder the end of the cable to keep it 

from slipping through the nico' discussion.  I have been building and flying 

RC models almost forty years and have built several large models.  WWI 

planes have cables and you have to figure a way to replace them or repair 

them in the field usually.  I have crimped, swedged, screwed and soldered 

and one thing came out clear.  If you heat a steel/SS cable even to solder 

it, it seems to lose its ability to flex and will become brittle and break 

upon bending.  I just want to add this.  I ALWAYS use two nicos -- both done 

perfectly -- which adds to the redundancy and I NEVER have to worry about 

them.  I use the two bolt swedge unit from Aircraft Spruce.  Tough to use at 

times but well worth the time.  The big trick is make SURE you have the 

swedge tool centered so it does not squeeze the cable at the end of the 

nico.  It will bell out at the ends very nicely.  If it is not done right, 

carefully use a dremell cutting tool and cut it in half and start again. 

Done that many times.  After all, it is ONLY your life that depends on it. 

Oh, yeah, watch out you dont have a bow in one of the cables between the 

nicos.  Take your time and do it right and you will live forever until you 

die.  Ted Cowan.  Alabama.  By the way, Beverly and I are having an 

Ultralight get to gether on June 10 again this year.  All are welcome. 

Camping available.  For info go to:  www.airnav.com    AL51.  Contact me off 

list for further info.  Also info at:  www.homestead.com/southernflyers   at 

the events section.

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George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: Re: soldering

MAY BE A DUPLICATE RESPONSE... but anyway

Although nico sleeves weren't involved, from a personal experience, I would like to support what Ted said about heating the cable.  



In my case, the throttle cable was heated and solder applied to keep it from slipping through the connector to the throttle lever.  The good news is that it snapped, on the ground, as part of my regular preflight.  (Open the throttle to full and close it listening for the infamous "click" of the slides as they return home.  They certainly clicked this time when the cable let go and they went home in a hurry!)  

 

On examination, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was soldered, back about 1".  The general consensus, of those that examined it, was that the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat application.  (The failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions here in FL.)  The cable actually rusted through.  Miffed that I didn't see the rust before it broke.  Some of the discoloration/rust protruded from the connector enough to be seen.  Conceptually a good idea, with not so good results.

 	  tc1917(at)hughes.net wrote: 	
		  I would like to add something to the 'solder the end of the cable to keep it 

from slipping through the nico' discussion. 

<<<<SNIP>>>>

If you heat a steel/SS cable even to solder it, it seems to lose its ability to flex and will become brittle and break upon bending.

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_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:49 am Post subject: soldering

I'm coming into this late, and don't want to step on any toes, but I've had 

considerable experience with soldering, and some with cables.  Here's a few 

thoughts.............



As Chief Engineer of the hotel I work at, an un-enviable part of my job is 

to teach others some of my skills, one of which is soft soldering.  (I also 

teach them silver soldering and gas welding, but that's another ulcer 

building story)



Soft solder melts easily, at something around (I think) 500 F., just barely 

enuf to make the metal change color.  Almost without exception, even with 

practise, almost everyone will heat the metal too much.  Far too much.  My 

guys drive me crazy with this.  They'll burn the flux almost every time, 

even with me telling them, "Enuf, Enuf ! ! !"  Practise on copper tubing. 

Steel wool, wire brush, or emery cloth it till shiny - both male and female 

surfaces.  ALL surface contaminants MUST be removed.  Coat the surfaces 

lightly with a flux.  Heat the joint gently with a propane or mapp torch in 

the area you want the solder to flow to.  It will flow TO the heat.  As the 

area warms up, start scratching the surface with the solder stick.  Soon it 

will start to leave streaks of silver on the surface.  Just a little more, 

and the solder will suddenly flow into the joint.  STOP HEATING at this 

point.  A little more - repeat, a little more - heat and solder will smooth 

and fill the joint.  If the flux turns black, you got it too hot and you 

will NOT make the solder stick.  It'll just make beads.  Take it apart and 

start over.



OK, wire..........much tougher, but do-able.  I've found it best to 

carefully unwrap the strands and clean them with a solvent, even steel wool 

them, re-wrap them, then flux and solder.  Great care must be taken, since 

individual wires will heat almost instantly and others won't.  Some will 

glow red hot quickly, and then won't take the solder.  I've done this 

successfully - sometimes - on motorcycle cables, and other times not.  Many 

factory cables are (or at least were, in my day) soldered.  Would I trust 

this on my airplane ??  Nope.  Too iffy for my skill level.  Properly done, 

yah, probably.  Once again, almost everyone uses far too much heat, which is 

what ruins the cable.  Take it easy.  Clean parts are everything.



When I was a logger, we'd make up choker cables on the spot by sliding the 

bell over the cable, then inserting a tapered, fluted steel wedge into the 

end of the cable to spread the strands.  Then smack the bell over the spread 

strands at the end and they were locked solid.  Strong ??  Yah, they'd take 

the slam of a D6 Cat hitting the end of them when hooked to a tree to be 

skidded to a landing, and do it repeatedly, day after day.  Do they make 

small enuf bells and wedges to fit these small cables ??  I dunno.  Never 

seen one, but a fairly handy person may be able to make one.  Maybe solder 

it in ??                                Lar.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

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Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:58 am Post subject: soldering

I've had extremely good luck with the throttle cables that come with 

Kolb Kits.  Never had to solder one.



KISS (keep it simple)

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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: soldering

Kolbers,



I have had good luck with tandem bicycle de railer cables.  The are super 

long, inexpensive, and can be found with a Teflon coating.  I believe they 

are a little smaller in diameter than the Kolb throttle cables.  You have to 

reduce the diameter of the lead bead so that it will fit into the throttle 

slide.  It may be possible to drill out the retaining hole to accept the 

non-modified bead.



I have had more problems with the other end.  I clip them off square and try 

to not frazzle them.  Then I use a soldering iron and rosin core solder to 

solder the cut end cable strands together.  After this is done, I wick a 

drop of crazy glue up next to the soldered end.  This stabilizes the cut end 

so that one can pull the cable for cleaning and re-lubrication, and 

re-insert the cable with little trouble.  Before I did this, the frazzled 

end made it very difficult the thread the cable from the engine to the 

throttle and to get the end in the small clevis hole.



I believe using an iron helps with heat control so that you do not over heat 

the cable.  I do not believe one should use acid flux, as it likes moisture 

and will keep eating away at the metal over a period of time.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

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HShack(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: soldering

In a message dated 4/27/2006 8:08:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

On examination, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was 

soldered, back about 1".  The general consensus, of those that examined it, was 

that the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat application.  

(The failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions here in FL.)  

The cable actually rusted through.  Miffed that I didn't see the rust before 

it broke.  Some of the discoloration/rust protruded from the connector enough 

to be seen.  Conceptually a good idea, with not so good results.

No expert here, but to solder the cable, you may apply flux  or use acid core 

solder.  When the cable is heated, the flux migrates up the cable.  That acid 

or flux is corrosive to steel.



Perhaps if rosin core solder was used.....



Howard Shackleford

FS II

SC

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rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: soldering

In my humble opinion, one should NEVER use any flux on the cables except resin. At the same time, with me a big no-no is never heat them with a torch, but a medium heat soldering iron.  I have soldered many cable ends, and other sensitive wires,etc. using this combination. Then when finished, brush the area with alcohol. Have never seen any change in strength or evidence of corrosion.

  Ray

  UltraStar    Tenn.

  Do not archive



HShack(at)aol.com wrote:

  



In a message dated 4/27/2006 8:08:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, 

gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

On examination, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was 

soldered, back about 1". The general consensus, of those that examined it, was 

that the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat application. 

(The failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions here in FL.) 

The cable actually rusted through. Miffed that I didn't see the rust before 

it broke. Some of the discoloration/rust protruded from the connector enough 

to be seen. Conceptually a good idea, with not so good results.

No expert here, but to solder the cable, you may apply flux or use acid core 

solder. When the cable is heated, the flux migrates up the cable. That acid 

or flux is corrosive to steel.



Perhaps if rosin core solder was used.....



Howard Shackleford

FS II

SC



		

---------------------------------

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Ray S.Anderson

George Myers

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: soldering

=0D

 =0D

 	  Quote: 	
		  end of the cable to spread the strands.  Then smack the bell over the

spread=0D
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  strands at the end and they were locked solid.  Strong ??  Yah, they'd t=

ake=0D
	


 =0D

Use a soldering iron. The kind that goes on a propane torch works great.

Keep the flame small & the iron clean & tinned. Use only resin for flux.

Have the cable ends secured in an upright condition & slightly spread. Wi=

pe

a very small amount of flux on the ends. Put the solder on the tip & let =

the

solder heat the strands. Don't touch them with the iron. The solder will

heat & tin the strands. Apply the solder to the iron, not the cable. Clea=

n

thoroughly with alcohol then rub in grease. woiks liika charm.=0D

George

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George Myers

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: soldering

maybe this is easier to read



 	  Quote: 	
		  end of the cable to spread the strands. Then smack the bell over the spread

strands at the end and they were locked solid. Strong ?? Yah, they'd take

 
	


Use a soldering iron. The kind that goes on a propane torch works great.

Keep the flame small & the iron clean & tinned. Use only resin for flux.

Have the cable ends secured in an upright condition & slightly spread. Wipe

a very small amount of flux on the ends. Put the solder on the tip & let the

solder heat the strands. Don't touch them with the iron. The solder will

heat & tin the strands. Apply the solder to the iron, not the cable. Clean

thoroughly with alcohol then rub in grease. woiks liika charm.

George

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