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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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 Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues |
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Warning::: Disclaimer. I am an 801 builder and owner, not a 601 guy, BUT...
I have had a good experience with Zenith during my build of my 801. About half way through we had an 801 break up in mid air. To say all of us 801 builders were quite concerned is an understatement. We have since learned is was pilot error breaking apart a possible weakened tail from an earlier mod.
1- Sabrina has every right to speak her piece as she is the builder of a 601XL.
2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebuilt airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a factory one fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot error and they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documented with radar returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failure repeated itself. Hhmmm.
I am a pretty vocal person and most on this list know how I feel on posted topics.
Just Yesterday I got a rather cold reception when I visited the Zenith booth at Osh.
Are they ticked at me for saying what I do ? Most probably.
For all you people, including Zenith Aircraft Company, who persist in claiming there is NO problem with the design and state Chris Heintz has decades of engineering experience so he is right and others are wrong are in denial of the facts.
So I guess my question is this. If the 601XL is so safe and not flawed why has Zenith not displayed it at OSH, or any other airshow for that matter, for two years? What's their concern?
Seems to me they would display a 601XL, a standard one and an updated one, side by side and answer any and all questions to ease the present and future customers minds.
Comments guys and gals .... ??
do not archive
m>
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:36:49 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely useless
email train. Congratulations!
Jeff
Do not archive
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues |
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It is still possible to break an airplane while flying below Va. Va is the speed at which, if the gust induced or control input induced rate of change of angle of attack is below a defined maximum value, the wing will stall before its maximum structural loading is exceeded. Flying below Va does not mean that you can move the controls abruptly from stop to stop or make large control deflections around more than one axis without damaging the airframe.
See: http://www.flyingmag.com/myth-maneuvering-speed
On Jul 31, 2010, at 6:14 PM, n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote:
| Quote: |
2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebuilt airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a factory one fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot error and they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documented with radar returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failure repeated itself. Hhmmm.
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.
do not archive.
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues |
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Hi Jeff....
We are all in the Zenith family in one way or another so a healthy debate that might prevent future fatalities in my mind is constructive. Email me directly on your troubles with the 3300 air plenum issues. If I can help fabricate something I will.
Roger Lambert sent this to my personal email so I wll post it to the list as he asked.
?
Perhaps the reason you get a cool reception is you post messages with incorrect statements of fact. Zenith has displayed a 601xl at Lakeland each of the last two years as well as other airshows, including the LSA in Sebring. You can post your retraction in the same forum as the original.
Roger Lambert.
I said Osh and other airshows. You can pick and choose you comments as you feel the need to position your case, BUT. Osh is the biggest show for experimentals so my question still exists.
Why not display a 601/650 ?????????????
Your turn sir.
Ben.
st(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:57:34 -0400
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Ben,
The point is that no smoking gun has been found to be the cause of the XL accidents. Innovators like you are very welcome and have a valuable place in our Zenith community. But when someone claims that CH owes them a refund because the design is short of the claims: that has not been shown to my satisfaction. Clearly, something has been happening with the XL. People have died. But the cause has still not been clearly identified. To claim otherwise is just unethical, juvenile, sophomoric, or whatever. The upgrade package is a shotgun approach based on the lack of an identified single cause. Most people accept the upgrade package as resulting in an acceptable design. Sometimes in life there is no clear answer to our questions. I don't see any use in furthering this discussion. This is old stuff. Let's move on.
Can you help with my Jabiru 3300 air plenum baffles?
Jeff
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:14 PM
To: <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues.
Warning::: Disclaimer. I am an 801 builder and owner, not a 601 guy, BUT...
I have had a good experience with Zenith during my build of my 801. About half way through we had an 801 break up in mid air. To say all of us 801 builders were quite concerned is an understatement. We have since learned is was pilot error breaking apart a possible weakened tail from an earlier mod.
1- Sabrina has every right to speak her piece as she is the builder of a 601XL.
2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebuilt airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a factory one fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot error and they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba city crash was documented with radar returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failure repeated itself. Hhmmm.
I am a pretty vocal person and most on this list know how I feel on posted topics.
Just Yesterday I got a rather cold reception when I visited the Zenith booth at Osh.
Are they ticked at me for saying what I do ? Most probably.
For all you people, including Zenith Aircraft Company, who persist in claiming there is NO problem with the design and state Chris Heintz has decades of engineering experience so he is right and others are wrong are in denial of the facts.
So I guess my question is this. If the 601XL is so safe and not flawed why has Zenith not displayed it at OSH, or any other airshow for that matter, for two years? What's their concern?
Seems to me they would display a 601XL, a standard one and an updated one, side by side and answer any and all questions to ease the present and future customers minds.
Comments guys and gals .... ??
do not archive
m>
Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:36:49 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>
Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely useless
email train. Congratulations!
Jeff
Do not archive
--
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
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